The Word Cloud

Just before I start, I signed the petition, I'm against book-banding etc. etc.

But...

If there is no book-banding, how do we educate parents and help them to be responsible censors for their children? This has come up because I walked in to our top class at school today (Year 5/6 mix - ages 9-11) and found two girls reading Stephanie Meyer's Twilight and Eclipse respectively. I've only just finished reading Twilight and half way through New Moon at the moment so have the stories fresh in my mind and, perhaps I am old fashioned, I think it is entirely unsuitable for that age group. I think the girls in question are either 10 or 11 and, in my mind, I would have said the books were more aimed at 15+. Maybe I am wrong. But to me there are very clear themes about sex, almost-adult relationships, violence and suicide that I just don't think they should be reading about yet.

I realise that one of the problems is that the Twilight Saga has had a lot of hype and the films, I believe, only have a 12 certificate (I haven't seen them myself). So perhaps parents have been led to believe that the books are more innoccuous than I think they are.

In this particular situation, I have passed my concerns to the headteacher and if she agrees with me, she will speak quietly to the parents and inform them of our concerns but it's a bit late really as the girls have already been exposed to them.

So, what does everyone else think?

In my view the problem goes broader than books and I don't think that book-banding will solve it. Children are far more likely to be exposed to "age-inappropriate" (yuk, yuk, yuk - can't believe I've written that!) content via media other than books - from early evening soaps to games to internet to the trash papers. I've had a similar dilemma with my son. He's 9 and I've been wondering if he's ready for books like Young Bond or Alex Rider. The library tells me that these books are banded 13+ here in Germany (because of the violence) but when they are showing Hellboy and Terminator DVDs at the youth fire brigade he goes to I do wonder whether books are the least of the problem. At least they're well-written!

In a public library, Stehanie Mayer is classed as teenage fiction. Graphic novels are more of a problem but Tom and Jerry were extremely violent too.

There will always be children reading and seeing things that are not meant for their age group. Thinking back to my own early teens, I used to go to X rated films at the cinema, read books that were totally inappropriate, and did all this without my parents even knowing. I can't see any generation of teens being any different.

Yes, I am now seeing the other side a bit more clearly. Had long and in depth chat with one of my colleagues and a lot of what you're saying echoes things she said. But I'm still not entirely sure where I stand on it. I think I will end up being more of a censor for my child than other parents might be (for example there's no way that they would be allowed to watch Eastenders etc. until I felt he was old enough for us to be able to discuss the issues that were being presented) but I hope I will be less of a censor than my own mum was who, even in my late teens (and past the age of consent), would not and could not discuss anything about relationships because she thought I was too "young" and shouldn't be doing it anyway. There's got to be some middle ground that avoids the tendency to allow children to see/read things just because it's popular and their friends are but also makes sure that the children don't feel so censored that they watch/read in secret and then are not able to come and ask about the things that might bother them. I think it must be very difficult to find the right balance - glad that I've got a few more years to think about it before it becomes an issue!

I also think you just have to have faith in your child and the wider family environment they are being raised in. Kids don't make up their minds about things or to do things simply because they have read or watched something. Maturation is comprised of so many influences and your family values and their understanding of the world will help them to grade what they see sensibly even if it is a/incomprehensible (my first reaction when I read about sex at a young age: who would want to do that?) b/awful c/exciting.

Apparently, I wanted to read my mother's copy of Lady Chaterley's Lover when I was about six and she had to lock it in a cupboard! At a young age my aunt dressed me up and smothered me in make-up so I could go see The Godfather - I never told anyone that I had nightmares for weeks after! And when the Exorcist was made into a film my parents got me to read the worst bits to them - no worry that I wasn't even old enough to see the film. (Incidentally I still haven't seen the film and have no desire to!).

They (whoever these 'wise' ones are) reckon that if a child can read then they should read no matter what the literature is. I used to go along with that but, thinking about it now, the wrong book/film at the wrong time can cause problems and anxiety for a child. But the biggest cuprits are TV, newspapers and magazines. Whatever kids can get from books they can get in abundance from the media. A chld is more likely to foregt what they read in a book whereas what is reenforced with pictures and sound will stick in their minds. So I've talked myself around to where I started and that's to let children read what they like - most will put a book down if if it's too 'adult' and they don't understand.

I agree with Nashelle's comments. Most adult themes are incredibly boring for children to read. They will skim through, laugh at the rude words, maybe show them to their friends, and pass on to something more accessible. Sustained violence in book form can be very boring too. Children need a storyline that progresses, and also some hope in a book, something to reach for. If all is darkness, most of the children I have known have simply lost interest. They access violence more readily through films, TV and games – and there I do have worries, because of the commercial vested interests in purveying 'extreme' entertainment.

My sixteen year old son told me he found some of the latest games - Call of Duty Modern warfare in particular - very disturbing and he wasn't alone among his friends. It has some truly horrific incidents in which I won't describe for you. Now that I would reckon could send any 8 year old to a shrink for years.

I assume Louise you are talking about the skip-able level in Call of Duty, where you play as a terrorist attacking an airport. Having played the game, I feel I have to defend it, not because I liked it, I didn't (first person perspective vide games give me headaches), but because to be fair, you don't have to play 'that level' (No Russian). Even when you are playing it you don't have to shoot a single bullet in the first part of the level, and if you feel strongly enough to not look at all then you can take the level backwards, or keep your eyes on the walls or the flight listings (once the first bullet is fired every one switches to delayed). While this isn't the only section of the game some might find disturbing, it is a military shooter. It is rated 18. Your 16 year old son, legally shouldn't have been playing it.

Modern warfare came with a warning, it was rated 18. The game gives you the option to skip an entire level if you feel you may find the content offensive or disturbing. Short of a complete ban, there isn't really much more you can do. You're son is 16, not 8, and while they probably do, 8 year olds shouldn't be playing Call of Duty, Modern Warfare 2.

I will add though, I played it when I was 17, I'm 18 now. I didn't enjoy the level, but it tied in to the plot. It had context and meaning, and wasn't just violence for the sake of it. Not quite a Saw movie, which everyone this side of twelve has seen these days.

It's harder really to identify books that may be offensive or contain adult material. When I was quite young, I bought a cosmopolitan magazine because a book called Sparkle came free. I threw the magazine away, and read the book in a few days. I didn't understand much about it. She was a journalist, there was some sex and a serial killer with a gruesome calling card. I'm not ashamed to say I knew about sex, drugs, alcohol and guns long before some societies think I should have.

Twilight has a large fan base, and in comparison to TV programs, late night movies, even playground games, it really is quite mild. I don't think books should be banned. However I think maybe they should have an age rating system. Only books branded erotica and sold only in 'Adult only' stores are really of limits to children. For example I bought my mother the True blood books in WH Smiths, and I don't think they would have stopped me if I was five. After about the fifth chapter the contents of this book were shocking. Page after page of sexual clichés.

Of course, children will still read these books, just like we still watch Tarantino films and play violent video games, but at least parents will know whether they're buying an 8 year old a book suitable for an 8 year old, because honestly to really decide how suitable the book is for an individual, you'd have to know the book, the content and the nature of the person in question perfectly, just like some 16 year olds will be able to handle playing video games such as COD: Modern Warfare, and others might not.

Rhian

Why do adults underestimate kids so much? It's as if they can't remember being kids themselves. I was reading adult SciFi at the age of 8. There was often some very weird and kinky sex in those books, but I don't think reading them did me any harm; I seem to have turned out alri- . . . hang on, I think I see a flaw in my argument there.

Seriously, tho, I really don't think that any books I read, films I watched or porno that got passed around at school did me any harm. It was Real Life stuff that messed with my head.

I watched 18 rated movies at 9 and think I turned out ok... maybe! I think kids (like a lot of adults I know) find anything they're not supposed to read fascinating. I went through a phase where I wanted to watch every banned movie ever made. I think this is similar with age banding of books. I trained to be a teacher for primary kids and not a day went by when I wasn't surprised (or amused) by how utterly sharp and aware they were. Even about things I had no clue about at their age. But! I think we need to protect them from growing up too quickly or seeing themes in books that are unsuitable or harmful. When I was about 10-12 all the girls read Sweet Valley High books which were for teenagers. I think it's just one of those things that is going to happen. If you want something enough, you#ll find a way to get your hands on it (sorry, I have a cat lying on my better typing hand so can't type properly!)

A child will always have "inappropriate" material avaliable. In censoring it you a parent is more likely to set up a "child vs parent" situation. Wouldn't it be better to read such material yourself (where appropriate, obviously not everything) and then comment on it? IE - "such and such a hero was fine, but didn't you notice that they did such and such".