The Word Cloud

i am new to writing. i think of it as an option to tell and share my stories that i have been holding for years now. my first dream was to be an animator and make my stories to life but recently i have become unfourtunate and i dont really believe animation is the way to go. so i have changed my road into writing my stories instead. i got a few questions...

I'm going to echo this - as someone who never finished their degree, and can't seem to get the chance to finish it, I'm very interested in the answers.

Pff no.

Sweet :D

Generally speaking, an English degree won't make any difference - though plenty of writers have them. (Plenty of writers, however, didn't write a word for years after the degree, feeling so daunted by all the great literature they'd read.)

A Creative Writing Masters will make you a better writer, and mentioning it in your submission to an agent or a publisher does tell whoever's reading it that your work will be competent, and that you caan spell, punctuate, capitalise and so on (you'd be surprised how many manuscripts come in which are utterly hopeless on that score alone). So they may approach your MS in a more positive spirit. But they'll only take the book on if they like it enough.

When it comes down to it, if the book's good enough, and saleable enough (not entirely the same thing) and they personally fall passionately in love with it, they'll take it on. If it isn't all those things, they won't.

Emma

thanks emmaD. vry helpfuly,, more drive to write my stories better

Emma, I wonder could you possibly advise on any correspondence courses worth looking at in these terms? Obviously (I think) any form of MA is out of the question without a degree, and I'm really not in a position to go back to uni full time until both my daughters are in school full time.

Thing is, I love studying as much as I love writing, and I'd be very keen to get myself signed up to something useful. I came across the London School of Journalism who offer such courses, but do they have any credibility?

I'm going to have 4.5 hours free a day as of September, and I want to make the best possible use of that time. I've even been looking into organising voluntary work experience at one of the local newspapers as I've ventured into that arena now too.

I'm of the opinion that if I can show on my CV that I have made productive use of my free time (in spite of being a full time mum with a disabled child), it demonstrates how serious I am about my writing.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Eshka, I have just complete the Open University creative writing course. They have them at various levels starting at different times of the year. They are conducted by computer, which is absolutely ideal for me being housebound. They send you the materials you need in the post, and the whole course is on their website. I printed it all off, but you don't actually need to. They are pricey though, but if you go to their website you should be able to find all the info you need. Emma D actually tutors one of the courses.

Eshka, I wouldn't totally rule out an MA without a degree, though I think you'd have to show that you were used to studying and being organised in some other form. On one hand the basic university regulations probably demand a first degree, on the other hand most such courses have a way round that if they really think you're the one for them, specially if you've done a serious writing course in some other context.

I don't know very much about the London School of Journalism, except that it's entirely respectable as an institution, and a quick glance suggests that the CW courses are sensibly structured.

Another place to look would be the Open University, who have 12-week starter courses, and a longer Lever Two course, A215, which I teach on: there are also Level Three courses in individual forms. I'm impressed by how well thought-out it is, and the textbook is absolutely terrific. It occurs to me that if you did want to set your sights on an MA without a first degree, then having done something like that would show you were serious. A215 is undergrad-level and would show you could work at that level even if you haven't done a full degree. It's quite a commitment in time, though flexible within the week or three when you do the work - it's all online.

You could also have a look at the Open College of the Arts, which do CW courses - it's just you sending work to a tutor, I think, so it's more flexible when you can send work in than the OU. On the other hand, with the OU you have a forum, and online tutorials to join into, and a couple of day workshops which aren't compulsory, but great if you can get there.

Crossed with you, Weens.

Thanks - I am familiar with the OU, having started a History of the Arts course a while back. Sadly it didn't work out as things got a bit turbulent for me personally, but my tutor was fantastic and encouraged me to return to studying as soon as I had time. The course itself wasn't my cup of tea though - I need something more specific to literature and creative writing.

I'm definitely going to get this sorted out - studying is necessary.

ok, hi everyone... this is my very first post. im hoping its a "no" you dont need a degree or any fancy title. as im a full time worker, full time mum and wife and have only started to write in the last three years... ive written one book of 250,000 words and am into my second book, now standing at 35,000 words...

i still havent got a clue in how to get my book "out there"... so spotted this site and joined...

ok, enough about me, me, me... im keeping my fingers crossed that just "cos" i am not even collage educated i might just get published...

Thanks...

Helen xx

Hi Helen, best of luck to you - what kind of book is it that you have completed? You'll find loads of really interesting tips, advice and information on this site - trust me, it's priceless.

Hiya...its an adult book... more erotic fiction... with vampires. im so new at this, its giving me a headache thinking about it all... the easy part was writting the damn thing... lol...

I think the general consensus here is to firstly enjoy your writing and secondly to get your nose to the grind-stone and do it well. This will hopefully ensure that the reader gets the fullest enjoyment from your writing as well.

If you would feel more comfortable having some formal qualification, and you can fit study into your routine, all the better. There are lots of techniques and tricks of the trade (so to speak) that you can pick-up during your study and these can then be incorporated into your own writing.

Lots of writing and absolutely loads of reading will help to improve your own style of writing. The main areas to hone in on are; allowing enough time for your writing (there�s no rush), drafting/ re-drafting ( if you�ve made the effort in the first place, it may as well be right) and ultimately, cutting yourself a bit of slack, enjoy what you are writing... life is for living.

I don't have any formal qualifications in writing but I have learned a lot about writing in a few other ways. Firstly, I sent my MS to the Writer's Workshop (best thing I ever did) and learned a huge amount about my writing from the first lot of feedback from them. At their suggestion, I then went on a week-long residential course through the Arvon foundation (again, an invaluable experience). I then spent 9 months or so swapping chapters with a fellow student from the Arvon course so we could give each other feedback - was a great motivator to get the writing done and the exercise of looking at someone else's work with a critical eye was invaluable when I then turned back to edit my own work. I then sent the MS for another read with WW and got more valuable feedback. The rest I have learned from various forum topics on this site and help from a literary friend who is good at explaining the nuts and bolts to me.

In the meantime, I've managed to get the interest (though no representation yet) of an agent who has read my MS twice and suggested changes. I'm currently working on the third version for her. I don't know yet whether I will be successful but, so far, I have not found my lack of qualifications a hindrance. I have, however, found it an absolute nessecity to learn as much as I can about the craft of writing because unless you are an incredibly gifted writer and it all comes naturally (I would love to say that was me!), there are certain techniques/skills that need to be learned to avoid common pitfalls and to really understand why that particular sentence isn't working well and or why that character isn't jumping ou of the page etc. So if there's no way you can squeeze a course in to your life, I'd just spend lots of time on this site - cheaper too as all those things I mentioned above (though definitely value for money) cost a bit.

Skylark

Kinell, I hope not! I got a 'U' for English lit 'O' level. ( A=excellent, E=Appalling, F=not even good enough to get a grade, U=why did you even bother to turn up?) I was the only one in my year to get a 'U' in any subject - Yay, me! Fuck 'em all! Wait till they see my name at the top of the bestsellers list . . .

The answer to your enquiry is obviously no. You don’t need an English degree to get published.

Then again?...

Writing is dependant on your audience. If you intend to write for a Cambridge Don, then I expect he or she, being rather cultivated, might expect more of your vocabulary and vernacular, and probably wouldn’t tolerate verbalisms analogous of the proletariat. In that instance a good education would be of assistance.

Then again?...

If you intend to drag the non-bourgeoisie from the little black box in the corner of their living rooms then you should remember that, not wishing to appear unkind, the average reading age in the UK is astonishingly low, at around twelve. To appeal to our, almost illiterate, potato munching brothers and sisters you obviously don’t need a degree. Just a good sense of what they want to read about if they can drag their work weary eyes away from page three or the latest gossip in Hello.

Speaking as a person who couldn’t read or write until the tender age of twenty two, and someone who has lived all over the world and has dragged themselves out of the primeval soup of the underclass, and as a person with a Master’s from one of Britain’s top universities I can state emphatically... Did you go blue in the face reading that sentence? Boy! I just couldn’t get a full stop in there. Now I’m off my soap box I’ll continue... I can state emphatically that a degree will not help you to get published. I did my degree at forty-two and can state that it hasn’t helped yet. I guess it will at some point.

Then again?...

My life has been inordinately interesting. One day, when I am a world famous author, I might consent to write about it. The public’s fascination with celebrity might make it a best seller. Until that time, however interesting, it probably would go unpublished.

Then again?...

I’m currently a Sea Gypsy and in my travels I have come across many people who write to earn money. All of them are frightfully posh people. They went to the right schools, have got degrees and know the right people. Every one of them had agreements of some sort with agents and publishers before they started writing. I read one of the worse books I’ve ever cast my myopic eyes over, no names no pack-drill, written by a BBC person who obviously knew the right people. The book wasn’t badly written. It was just passionless. Three hundred odd pages of soulless observations from a sea traveller, that I couldn’t get published if I hit a literary agent over the head with a gold bar.

So, we are back to the question, “Do you need an English Degree/background to get published?

No, yes, probably, it helps.

To answer your question I believe knowing the right people is more important. If you went to a public school and top university, as a youngster, you are part of a network of other influential people. Some of the dimmest people I know have influential jobs by virtue of Estonian nepotism. Now, one phone call to the Head boy, who incidentally buggered you rigid at school, would spark the old network into action.

Conversations in the wine bar over bubbling glasses of Bollinger would go, ‘Rudders? Remember that chap, Blattersby?’

‘What the one you used to bugger round the back of the gymnasium?’

Embarrassed nod.

‘What did you call him? Oh! Yes! Blattersbum.’

‘Shhh! Cynthia will hear you. His written a book or something.’

‘Really? Didn’t old flabbersbottom’s father own something to do with books.’

‘Come to think of it old chap...’

In reality it’s not that bad, but it’s nice to have some fun.

Then again?...

Heh, I didn't need an English degree to teach English (I have a degree in Palaeobiology and Evolution, started teaching science and then swapped to English, because ironically I found it an easier subject to teach...), so why would you need a degree to write? I have found that if you have the interest, the drive, the inspiration and the dedication to 'teach' yourself' how to do it, you can do it.

I guess a degree in palaeobiology would be beneficial in communicating with some people I know.

I'm pretty sure you don't need a degree in the field - at least I really really hope not because I'm starting a History in September! You need talent, not certificates, surely?

I'm pretty sure you don't need a degree in the field - at least I really really hope not because I'm starting a History in September! You need talent, not certificates, surely?

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to post that twice!

Nahh

I have an O-Level in English at 'B' (that dates me!) but that's it. I was fortunate enough to learn punctuation at primary school though, before it fell out of vogue.

Cheers,

Drew.

No... I didn't.
Successful fiction is primarily about ability to storytell.
And I'm also dyslexic and we did very little grammar at school.
So my first round of edits with publisher's editor were painful and embarrassing.
Hence I brushed up on my grammar and punctuation to the point that I now can teach people the rights and wrongs of commas.
I still occasionally write the odd but of grammatical nonsense but that's what copy editors are for.

But if you're not confident with your grammar, worth learning as it will make you a better writer (a master knowing how to use his tools and all that).