| Mon, Mar 1 2010 05:36pm GMT 1 |
BlueDiamondMist
28 Posts
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Hi everyone,
I am sorry to sound a bit dense on this subject but I am
currently plowing through lots of children's fantasy books as
research for my book and seem to find, in my opinion, an 'over
use' of comma's.
Now, I am just a new writer starting out so I can do with all the
help I can get on gramma, spelling, punctuation etc but how and
when should a comma be used?
I always thought (as stated in the dictionary) that a comma is
generally a pause between parts of a sentance so as I read a
sentance, I take a 'little pause' before I continue.
A lot of the books I've read have commas everywhere and I feel
that it stops the flow of the book and I am starting to ignore
them when I see them. Can you please tell me whether I am right
or wrong in my thinking. Maybe I am not reading the books as they
are meant to be read??
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Steph
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| Mon, Mar 1 2010 11:24pm GMT 2 |
Weens
993 Posts
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Hi Steph,
This has always been a subject that has confused me. Emma D
recommended the Penguin book of Punctuation, which is very easy to
read. It would seem that where you feel there is a natural place
for a pause when you are reading it, is not always the best place
for a comma. There are lots of different types of commas as well. I
can second the recommendation; it is a book you can read in a
couple of days and does not use any complicated jargon. The other
thing that always gets me is a comma before the words and &
but, and I was taught never to start a sentence with either of
these words, but it would appear that times, they are a changing.
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| Tue, Mar 2 2010 02:10pm GMT 3 |
BlueDiamondMist
28 Posts
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Hi Weens, thanks for this. I noticed someone else on hear mentioned
that book so I guess I'll have to make a trip to the book shop!
I agree with the 'but' and 'and' you mentioned at the beginning
of sentences, they seem to appear more and more often.
Well thanks again, much appreciated!
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| Tue, Mar 2 2010 04:08pm GMT 4 |
Elysia
912 Posts
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Hey there, Steph - commas are a real pain in the butt, aren't
they? It's a misnomer that they indicate a pause (although we do
naturally pause when we come across one), and they actually have
lots of different uses.
The main one in a sentence is to seperate different clauses (I
won't go into loads of detail since I don't actually fully
understand it all myself, to be honest... XD). Basically, the
dominant clause in a sentence is the main thing that is going on
and can stand up as a sentence all on its own. So:
Sarah ran for the bus.
Obviously, this doesn''t give us much information. If we want to
add supporting information, we then use a comma to indicate this.
Basically, the extra information would not stand up on its own
and therefore needs the main sentence to make sense.
Sarah ran for the bus, because she was late.
You can switch the order of the information around, but the comma
still indicates the same thing:
Because she was late, Sarah ran for the
bus.
(You're not really supposed to start sentences with 'because',
but it happens...)
People tend to over use commas and use them where they shouldn't
be - for example, you're not really supposed to put a comma
before 'and', but so many people do that it is now accepted (a
bit like 'alright', which isn't actually a word - it should be
'all right').
I hope that helps (and I am not completely wrong... if I am,
worry, because this is how I was taught to teach using commas to
kids!)
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| Tue, Mar 2 2010 06:16pm GMT 5 |
BlueDiamondMist
28 Posts
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Hi Mistress Elysia, that is a wonderful help, thank you.
I think I agree that commas are over used so I'm not going to
worry too much but its nice to hear other peoples views. I want
to make sure I'm on the right track!!
Thanks again,
Steph
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| Tue, Mar 2 2010 11:41pm GMT 6 |
Persia
71 Posts
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Hi everyone!
Commas are not only overused, they're abused as well! In some ways
their use is a matter of taste; how you want the reader to
understand a concept and how you need to break up a sentence for
better comprehension are two different monsters. Here's a website
that lists the rules for commas:
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/commas.htm
And as Oscar Wilde said, " I have spent most of
the day putting in a comma and the rest of the day taking it
out. "
My opinion is that once you know the rules and can use them
accurately, then you can feel free to break them when the flow
calls for it.
I hope that helps!
Persia
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| Wed, Mar 3 2010 11:25am GMT 7 |
Persia
71 Posts
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Here's a classic comma exercise I give my students, to highlight
just what a comma is capable of. The wording is exactly the same;
only the punctuation has been changed:
Dear John,
I want a man who knows what love is all about. You are generous,
kind, thoughtful. People who are not like you admit to being
useless and inferior.
You have ruined me for other men. I yearn for you. I have no
feelings whatsoever when we're apart. I can be forever happy –
will you let me be yours?
Gloria
Dear John,
I want a man who knows what love is. All about you are generous,
kind, thoughtful people who are not like you. Admit to being
useless and inferior.
You have ruined me. For other men, I yearn. For you I have no
feelings whatsoever. When we're apart, I can be forever happy.
Will you let me be?
Yours,
Gloria
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| Wed, Mar 3 2010 04:43pm GMT 8 |
BlueDiamondMist
28 Posts
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Thanks Persia, you always give fab advice! :o)
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| Wed, Mar 10 2010 09:24am GMT 9 |
Jak
623 Posts
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The comma has 4 main
uses.
The listing comma, is
used as a substitute the word ‘and’ or ‘or’ when listing more
than 3 or more words, phrases and sometimes complete
sentences.
The three Musketeers were Athos,
Porthos and Aramis.
The joining comma, is
used to join two complete sentences into a single sentence, BUT
must be accompanied by a suitable connecting word – and, or,
but, while and yet.
Norway has applied to join the EC,
and Sweden is expected to do the same.
The gapping comma, is
used to show that one or more words have been left out when the
missing words would simply repeat the words already used earlier
in the sentence.
Some Norwegians wanted to base
their national language on the speech of the capital city;
others, on the speech of the rural countryside.
Bracketing commas
(isolating commas) are the most miss used comma. The rule is – a
‘pair’ of bracketing commas is used to mark off a weak
interruption of the sentence. It should not disturb the flow of
the sentence.
These findings, we would suggest,
cast doubt upon the hypothesis.
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| Sun, Mar 14 2010 11:59pm GMT 10 |
Persia
71 Posts
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Though I must point out that there should be NO comma in the
following examples:
"The listing comma, is..."
"The joining comma, is..."
"The gapping comma, is..."
These are good examples of misused commas, so thank you Jak, for
posting the simplified rules.
Bracketing commas can be remembered by this simple rule: If the
information between the set of commas can be eliminated and the
sentence still makes full sense, then the commas are indeed a set
of PARENTHETICAL commas.
For a quick reference of actual comma rules, please check out
Wikipedia "comma rules".
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| Mon, Mar 15 2010 07:47am GMT 11 |
Spangles
720 Posts
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Ah, commas! I'm afraid that I've reached the stage with some books
where I am driven bats by the misuse of the commas. (Yes, it's true
that I don't get out much.) Unfortunately a lot of copy-editors who
work on these books don't seem to know the rules, either. So these
mistakes appear in print, which makes them seem correct and so they
are perpetuated.
I'd like to add another example of a misused comma – when it
replaces the words 'that' or 'which'. For instance: 'Colin was so
hot after eating the curry, he had to take all his clothes off.'
The correct version, of course, is 'Colin was so hot after eating
the curry that he had to take all his clothes off.' However, this
misuse of the comma is so widespread that you see and hear it
everywhere.
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| Fri, Mar 26 2010 03:58pm GMT 12 |
BlueDiamondMist
28 Posts
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Hi Jak, Persia and Spangles.
Sorry for this late reply but I have only just seen the posts.
I purchased the Puffin Guide to Punctuation which gives all the
information about the commas plus much, much more. It is a
fantastic book and I would recommend it to anyone who is unsure
of punctuation.
I had to run through my MS again before sending it off to the
Festival, and boy were there some errors, nearly all comma
related!
Thank you for your replies guys, much appreciated.
Steph
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| Fri, Mar 26 2010 04:36pm GMT 13 |
Spangles
720 Posts
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It's funny how the size of a comma is in inverse proportion to the
amount of angst it can generate. And the same is true of the
beleaguered apostrophe, of course.
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