The Word Cloud

i have been reading about a writers recently who openly admit to borrowing ideas from other peoples stories and useing them for their own but changeing them into another story.

at first i was shocked at this but i dont know if they change it so it is diffrent what do you think?

Somehow we are all using other people's stories. I heard Margaret Attwood say that every story has been written before.
If it has been changed and not recogniseable maybe it is okay. Although if it was my story I might not be pleased.

There are only seven basic plots, they say... It depends what you mean by story, doesn't it: you can boil most things down to either boy meets girl or boy meets monster. And you can always call it an hommage, like Zadie Smith's last one, which is a riff off Howard's End...

i guess if they copy the whole idea such as a paragraph then yes it would just be a rip off which they shouldnt do and i'd be pissed if i saw my ending in someone elses begining, how dare they. if however it is one idea which they have used such as say a can of beans, if someone wrote a can of beans in their story they would have to write completely oposite to how the writer they copyed the can of beans from wrote about their can of beans because if they go along the same lines as the author who originally wrote about those special beans and just changed what the characters said but kept the same plot as who they had copyied it from then that is serious, their are however alot of writers out there who do this and just add their story on top of it, i havent needed to do this yet and i dont know if its right or wrong

so debate

I wouldn't be able to sleep at nights if I copied a story. I find it hard accepting a word proposal when someone does  an edit for me. It must come from my heart, my mind.

I think there are rarely any origial ideas. Every idea has come from someone elses idea so to speak. I think sparking one idea is different from simple plagiarism. I did whilst at university have someone take an idea of mine and write the whole idea word for word. Because I hadn't written it down I couldn't prove a thing. She is no longer my friend!

I often think I have thought of something truly amazing and original only to google it and discover someone else has already thought of it. Completely ruins my grandiose delusions of being a genius! Ho hum back to being mediocre.

There’s a huge difference between plagiarism and being influenced. I’ve written a Vampire novel that’s based on historical myths, investigative works, and of course, countless (pardon the pun), short stories, poetry, novels and movies.

 

Say, for example, a writer published a Vampire novel that has an original take on what it means to be a Vampire (as mine does; or, at least, I think it does!), and it became a huge hit. After that, another writer writes a Vampire novel based on that same original take. Is that plagiarism, or just being influenced? Does it imply theft or simply an evolution in the story of Vampires?

 

On the other hand, if one writer reads another writer’s unpublished and original take on something, then uses that idea in his/her own work, it’s theft, pure and simple. The plagiarism argument holds up for published work, of course, but at least the author of a published work has that work date-stamped and in the public arena. It isn't hard for the writer of the original work to defend his/her position.

 

Susan Sontag was accused of plagiarism when somebody discovered that several passages from her 1999 novel, “In America”, about actress Helena Modjeska, were similar to passages in (three or four) other books previously published about Modjeska. The problem here is that Sontag was describing the same fact based stories about the great lady!

Figure that one out!

 

i think nettie and psychopat have said what i was thinking and hit the nail on the head i think being influenced is the best way to describe it because i think once those ideas are out there it is maybe ok to use them in a totally diffrent plot, because if it wasnt then no new stories would be written due to the billions of books which have already been published

just realised though people will use my ideas in diffrent plots which is still abit bizarre. glad its been aired though

All writers steal other peoples ideas and stories, we just like to call it 'infleuenced by', when we admit it to ourselves that we are thieves of words and ideas then we can sleep well at night. I guarantee not one writer can hold his head up and say this is my idea no one else has done this. To prove my theory, aka fact, anyone can name a story or idea and I'll give you at least one example of where the origin of that story , idea comes from.
ps - someone once said - being a genius is all about not being found out.

Ok Blood... I'll take your challenge;

Paradise Falls, my opus, is about a boy who becomes a god travels back in time and creates the world in which he will eventually be born.

Please tell me it's someone I admire...

:o)

Ez

My novel 'Moebius Strip' published to great success in the US, followed the exact same plot-line. Although ostensibly a 'sci-fi' novel, it was infact loosely autobiographical. I've never told anybody this until now. I regard Europe and the Wordcloud (and you too, Ez, who I created in my own image) as some of my more worthwhile creations. I'm beginning to regret the combustion engine, though...

i agree with being inspired but i totally dont believe in takeing all the plot line and changeing the speech and adding one or two new ideas, because it wouldnt be worth me writeing it because i would feel like a copy editor or worse and wouldn't feel like i'd written anything that i could say is my work but merely copyed someone elses craft, so theres no chance i'd do it, and others who do it will get a bad rep for re-writing stories which someone else has slaved over and when they do get that bad rep, their author job is doomed so its not what one get get away with copying, in my view.

Ez - You just burst all the work I've done for the last ten years on my decalogy of over a million words.
Damnit! I'll have to go back to filleting dragons and fiddling with pixies...

Aonghus, it's all right, you sort out the devesatating effects of pollution in book three, erm.. about fifty years from now. Let me just dig it out of the bin and I'll give you a page number...

;c)#

AW

My novel 'Moebius Strip' published to great success in the US, followed the exact same plot-line. Although ostensibly a 'sci-fi' novel, it was infact loosely autobiographical. I've never told anybody this until now. I regard Europe and the Wordcloud (and you too, Ez, who I created in my own image) as some of my more worthwhile creations. I'm beginning to regret the combustion engine, though...

Aha!
Someone I admire!
Paradise Falls is an homage to your work.
Well, maybe homage is too tame; "theft" is probably a better one...

Never regret anything you do and never do anything you regret as my father told me just before he lost both kneecaps in a freak de-kneecapping accident that was his own fault...

:o)

Ez

Ez - You just burst all the work I've done for the last ten years on my decalogy of over a million words.

:o) Glad to be of help...
Although to be honest, I was looking over your shoulder when you were typing - but you'll never be able to prove it! Bwah ha ha ha haaaaaaa. Oh, wait... bugger.

Damnit! I'll have to go back to filleting dragons and fiddling with pixies...

Possibly the best line I have ever read, in the history of ever!
Made me cry with laughter.
(Trying to stay on topic and being subversively humourous I was then going to add "Where did you get it from?" but it would denigrate the truth, so I shan't even mention it...)

:o)

Ez

Ok, trying to remain on topic and being serious for a second;

Lee,

I believe we *must* let such an insult slide for our own personal health.

If someone copies your work, be outraged yes, be indignant, yes, but most of all be aware that there is nothing you can do about it. We are not the first and we will not be the last. You can argue the toss in a court of law, maybe, and maybe you'll get some solace from legal vindication and perhaps punitive rewards, but the damage is already done - the person who deliberately copies your work would never admit it if they want to pass it off as their own, and sadly you cannot change that. Accept it; anything else is taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

If your idea is stolen, revel in the knowledge that only precious riches are targeted by thieves - how many times have you read the papers extolling the theft of rags? Ok, so you now have to fight for ownership but in truth it is not only yours to own but it was your creation. And because of the very nature of creation and creationism *cough* you will create another, maybe greater, idea. But only if you can move on.

What if the copying is truly accidental? I mean, how many of us have placed an insightful and brilliant bon mot on paper only to discover some time later it actually was something you read when you were a child and is, to another person, quite a famous quote? But to stand up and say, "My God you are right!" is the sign of an honest person. And there are precious few of us around... :o)

I fear my own work has re-used so many sources that I fear a "plagiarism" sticky label - but I know my own piece, if anything, is an homage to my hero's; to Terry, Izaac, Snorri et al you are the giants upon whose shoulders I stand. (Notice the playful mis-quote there; leading you to assume Izaac is Newton when in truth it is Asimov... )

So what if someone steals my idea? Will I be as calm? As fatalistic? Not if the buggers do it better than me, no. I'll be bloody furious. BUT. And, it is Feltzian in it's big butted-ness, I am not going to dwell on it. I may, one day, when I'm older and wiser and calmer, be able to say "copying my work is the ultimate compliment" without choking.

Ez

i am talking about people who copy all of the plot line, jk rowling won a case in court because of someone did it to her. ideas can be copied it is the order which they are in which is copyright

But if they needed to copy how good could they possibly be?
Surely plot line is the easiest thing in the world to do?!
If they can't be creative in plot then they cannot possibly create great characters, locations, emotions and interest. Who is that publisher? Maybe they'll print my rubbish...

I'd be very interested in seeing a link about that JK story, fella

Ez

This all made for diverting lunchtime reading. Ta, everyone.

Just for the record, as far as I am aware (please correct me, if I'm wrong) there is no copyright on an idea - if for no other reason than it is perfectly possible for two writers to come up with the same idea completely independantly.
Copyright and plagiarism apply to the written word (not necessarily the published word). Once you've written it, you own the copyright. Plagiarism involves someone else using a significant chunk of copyrighted material word for word, or virtually so, and implying it is their own work.
Writing your own story, in your own style, in your own setting with your own words, metaphores, descriptions, characters and dialogue - based on the same idea that has already inspired an existing story - is in no way plagiarism or cheating, nor does it detract in any way from a writer's skill or kudos in producing a new original work.

Um, do you think anyone will realise it's Gandalf even though I renamed him Theodore and gave him an effeminate lisp?

Although I may want to keep the original title, these modifications bring whole new meaning to "Lord of the Rings".

u should make loads ancient woodland and ezbloke, joking

ezbloke here is a link sure theres plenty of links http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7605142.stm

Ta for the link, fella.

Tony's right. There's no copyright in ideas - and no copyright in the order of particular ideas / plot devices or anything else. It's just chunks of words in a particular order that have copyright protection. And, sure, isn't all of life - the worthwhile bits, anyway - just one big happy plagiarism of ideas? Shakespeare stole all the time and good for him that he did. None of my plots have ever been consciously adapted from anyone else's book, but I'd never claim that they were original. They're just part of the great big human cultural stew. Hooray for that.

for me it is a moral stance i wouldnt copy ideas in the exact order which they had already been written, for instance if i was looking for an idea how vampires are killed i might swipe one idea but if the next two,three, four or five ideas or are taken from the same script which someone wrote which would probably be half a page of writing or so, i wouldnt copy them. it is ok to take one idea here, one idea there but copying a whole plotline is just wrong and naughty