How to give effective feedback

Thu, Jan 22 2009 03:41pm GMT 1
The WordCloud
The WordCloud
202 Posts

Howdy all!

Giving feedback is a skill. The better WordClouders are at giving feedback, the more success we'll all enjoy. So here are our tips for giving effective critiques ...

  1. Always start with a positive. Doesn't matter how many books you may have had published, receiving feedback is always a bit wince-inducing. So start with something nice, and end that way too if you can.
  2. Be honest. Publishing is bedevilled by bland, nice and evasive feedback. That's useless. If you think a certain chapter isn't working, the author needs you to say so.
  3. Be respectful. It should always be possible to give negative feedback in a respectful way. Please do as you would be done by. If you do inadvertently cause offence, be quick to say sorry!
  4. Respond to the writer's request. If someone is asking you for help with their characterisation, then the more you can say about that the better.
  5. Be specific. The more you illustrate your comments with examples drawn from the text, the more useful it'll be. It'll also force you to understand how writing works in a way that will help you in your own work. Honest, guv!
  6. Be expert. By giving good feedback to others you are training your own critical faculties, in a way which will really help you analyse and improve your own work. The more you understand about writing technique, the more your skills will improve. Do check out the Writing Technique pages of on the Word Cloud Discussions boards. You can go back to these time and again, and you'll learn more each time.
  7. Get personal. If you find you and a group of writers / critiquers are working well together, then form a Group on the Groups tab above. That'll bolster your mutual commitment and chances of success.

Thank you very much indeed for offering feedback. It's a huge service that you do to others ... and we hope that others will do just the same for you.

Fri, Jan 30 2009 12:00pm GMT 2
crystal
crystal
8 Posts
All wise advice - to which I would add, critiquing a work in progress is not the same as the kind of literary criticism practised in schools or universities. They want to look clever and either debunk or make you love a piece of work. We want to help the writer write the best work of which they are capable which means that you have to try and understand what they are trying to do and how they might get there. Its easy to give yourself a cheap thrill by slagging off someone's work but it's much harder to help them make that work better.
Sun, Feb 15 2009 01:07pm GMT 3
Philippa
Philippa
2 Posts

I would also add that before critiquing it is important for the critic to be honest with themselves. To admit tastes, dispositions, prejudices. If you cant stand the first person present in a narrator, then it will govern enthusiasm. If admitted then the writer can evaluate your criticisms in spite of it. Having joined Authonomy (for the past six months) in the hope of genuine criticism from a sampling of different readers, so as to get a portrait of how a work 'comes across' and whether there are glaring deficiencies that different readers all comment on, instead it has become a competitive schmmoozing mutual ascent to the Editors Desk.

I hope that if work is posted here ( will decide about that later) I might find readers who I can help and who might help in turn to improve what they undersatnd I intended, and not what they imagine I should have intended instead.

Tue, Mar 3 2009 10:09pm GMT 4
Lizzy
Lizzy
391 Posts
Thanks this is helpful. I feel rather ill equipped to make comments and give advise on other peoples work, but this has helped.
Wed, Mar 4 2009 09:08am GMT 5
EmmaD
EmmaD
1797 Posts

I think the important thing is to differentiate between making comments - which as long as they follow Harry's guidelines, everyone's entitled to make - and giving advice about what to do instead, which is a whole different thing, and is where your expertise and/or experience in the genre, or lack of either, come into play

Of course, if you feel that, say, Chapter 4 goes on too long without enough happening, you should say that, even if with the caveat that you like fat action thrillers, and this is a crystalline literary miniature, so your reactions may not be calibrated appropriately. And of course you can suggest that hiding a bomb in the babycarriage might be a good way of getting things moving. But you don't have to come up with suggestions if none occur, and, equally, you mustn't be miffed if the writer doesn't do what you suggest. (You'd be amazed at the way some commenters sulk/rage in those circumstances, and at the way some writers sulk/rage at the suggestion that not every word of their first draft is yet perfect.)

Your chief function as a critiquer is to supply reactions, and what the writer does about them is up to them. In fact, learning to use feedback is an incredibly important part of learning to write. Of course, among writers who have got to know each other and the piece in question, suggestions can develop into a really fruitful dialogue which goes on as the piece develops. But that's a bonus.

Even professionally, I always take notice of what my editors say (my agent is also the most fantastic editor), because if those professional expert readers see a problem, there is a problem, by definition, and I need to do something about it. But how I solve the problem without wrecking the integrity of the book is up to me.

Do we have a thread anywhere, as a pair to this, on how to use feedback effectively. Hmmm.... (On the other hand, I've got a novel to write.)Wink

Wed, Mar 4 2009 04:52pm GMT 6
Tony
Tony
1979 Posts
Good points, Emma.

In my youth, when I couldn't make up my mind between two alternatives I use to toss a coin - not that I always went with the throw. But when I saw how the coin landed my instantaneous reaction was either, "Ah, good" or, "Oh, no" and I THEN I knew what I really wanted, which was what I did.

I should think it's a bit the same with critical feedback. Our instant, momentary, reaction, before our predjudices cut in, should indicate if it's the sort of suggestion we might think of taking on board, or not. And even if we don't we can store up other people's suggestions for future work. I think critiques can be a great source of inspiration and, as somebody said here, a little while ago, even writing them stands us in good stead to better our own writing.

Write on.
Tony Cool
Wed, Mar 4 2009 05:58pm GMT 7
EmmaD
EmmaD
1797 Posts
I tossed a coin to see which of the two narrators in my first published novel got the happy ending. (Two sad endings too miserable, two happy endings too cheesy). And I can't even remember which won, because as you say, by the time the coin lands you know which it has to be.

When it comes to feedback, I think you're quite right, some of it rings a bell - however reluctantly - and some plainly doesn't. But you have to listen for that bell through your own static of 'But I like it like that' or 'But it'll be too difficult to change!' or 'But it's characterisation/scene setting' (neither of which is a good enough excuse for it to stay). Depending on your wiring, of course, the static can, alternatively be 'I knew it was all terrible and I'll never be a writer' or 'Oh God, they hate it all and I'm a shit writer, just like my English teacher said...' which is just as pointless.

Emma
Sat, Mar 14 2009 05:56pm GMT 8
Lizzy
Lizzy
391 Posts
I don't know why but I find critiquing really difficult. I want to do it because I do love reading other people's work. I still feel really ill equipped for doing so. I have tried a few times but have failed miserably.

I guess practise makes perfect!
Sun, Apr 12 2009 08:34am IST 9
Kate.J
Kate.J
79 Posts
I do too, Nettie, I waver between thinking my comments will be hypercritical and unfair because I have missed the point, or be gushy and unhelpful because I have not been critical enough. So when I do grasp the nettle, I hope my first "victim" will forgive me ...
Mon, Apr 13 2009 06:22pm IST 10
Lizzy
Lizzy
391 Posts
Hi Kate

Glad it's not just me! I always get fair and honest critiques. I would like to be able to offer the same back. I guess I am learning.
Sun, May 3 2009 03:55pm IST 11
scatterbee
scatterbee
19 Posts
May be slightly off topic but I think Tony and EmmaD's coin flipping tip is a good one, I can relate that back to similar situations I've had (not just to writing, you can apply it to pretty much anything I think) and know you're right, it really does help bring your gut reaction out to the front and point you in the right direction. Still, I'm often loathe to let go of one path completely and head off down another route... and unfortunately it's then you have to do what the read wants! :)Yell
Tue, Jul 14 2009 07:56pm IST 12
Pride.James
Pride.James
99 Posts
Responding your feeling about what you have read can be all positive with no negatives at all. if you like what you have read then say so, if you didn't then say that as well. people needing encouragement as well as criticism, if you totally liked what you have read them say so. The writers like to read how their work has affected other people good, bad or indifferent.
Thu, Aug 20 2009 10:19pm IST 13
Minxie
Minxie
206 Posts

I'm trying to be constructive with my opinions, but I am still learning myself!!! Even so, if I think something I say may help or inspire someone to carry on, I would only say that if I meant it and I think that is important.

I try to think of reading someone's work as drinking a glass of wine... I don't know anything about wine? All I know is if it tastes nice and I really want another glass, it must mean that I enjoyed it and want more. It doesn't mean anything to me how much it cost, where it came from or who made it, as I know nothing about wine? So all I can comment on is if I liked it, and if I would have more if it was on offer... Even though it isn't commenting on anything 'technical' I hope this helps some writers on the site, even if it's just a tiny bit?

Thu, Aug 20 2009 10:28pm IST 14
Weens
Weens
993 Posts
I think that is a great analogy Minxie. Let's face it, most people want to know if you 'liked' what they have written. If you liked it, then it's an odds on certainty, so will other people. If you didn't like it, then it is a possibility that there is something wrong with it (unless it is the subject matter you dislike). Telling a writer whether you like their work or not, can be just as useful to them as giving technical feedback. I'm in the same boat as you. I just know whether I like it or not. However, since I have joined this site, I am learning about the technical stuff. I knew nothing about POV, passive v active, changing tenses and handling flashbacks. I don't profess to be an expert in any of these, but I am learning how to spot them, and I find it easier to see in other people's work than my own. I think as long as you are honest and tell someone how their writing made you feel, then that is valuable feedback.
Fri, Dec 4 2009 11:55pm GMT 15
Freaky
Freaky
163 Posts
Always start with a positive. Doesn't matter how many books you may have had published, receiving feedback is always a bit wince-inducing. So start with something nice, and end that way too if you can

What if there isn't a positive? That to me doesn't imply that the negative is meant harshly. Some of the pieces i'v read on here are written in such a way it has distracted me from what they are actually trying to say, so it's hard to comment on the story. If people need help, softening the blow doesn't do that. If people are just being honest, it won't come across as being harsh or rude. What to me is rude, is if people were to bang on about how much better than you they are in their criticism, which I haven't once found on this forum, and that makes me want to stick around.

When i first started writing i thought it would all work out first time around, until i posted a couple of chapters on a writers forum, then i learned through criticism that it's nowhere near as good as i thought it was. As painful as it was, it opened my eyes to how I'm actually going to make it work.

Now I know more, I realise I don't know enough.
Sat, Dec 5 2009 12:00am GMT 16
Freaky
Freaky
163 Posts
or maybe I'm just too pessimistic Cry
Sun, Dec 6 2009 05:37pm GMT 17
SM Worsey
SM Worsey
617 Posts
I'm never sure what to do if I read summat that I really hate. I try to put myself in the shoes of the intended audience (e.g. vampire-loving teenagers) and look at it that way, but I still come across stuff that I just feel is really badly written, by someone who says they are trying to get published. (That hasn't happened on this site, BTW). In such situations, I just avoid reviewing.

For example, I recently read the first chapter of a story that was basically a long-winded description of the main character, his history, his views on life, the universe and everything, and full details of the woman he was in love with. Absolutely nothing happened and I felt there was nothing new to learn about the character. I didn't review, because the only honest response would have been to say "I think you should completely re-write this as a STORY." Was skipping it the the best thing to do?
Wed, Dec 9 2009 05:52am GMT 18
Malcolm
Malcolm
607 Posts
I try to be positive, though I'm not always sure how well I get that across and like most on this site, I'm still learning myself so I try to get THAT across too.

Reviewing something you absolutely hate is tricky. If it doesnt interest me and others are critiquing then I just leave them to it. If its just plain bad writing I try to pick out something they are doing well and comment on that before the less nice bits. I think the unpleasant bits need to be accompanied by a "why", not just "this need a complete rewrite". Skipping bad writing just means no one learns anything. As a by product of critiquing for me is that I end up thinking about my own writing in the process.
Mon, Apr 5 2010 04:34am IST 19
QBall
QBall
19 Posts
This is my first post, so I feel I have to take care and not ruffle feathers.
Rope & Wire is a website where six of my tales are featured as I am now a 'spotlighted' author.
On this site is a place called the Bullpen where wannabee writers submit stories for feedback.
I tend to go overboard at times, BUT I always strive to be fair.
My advice is easy, Edit, Edit, Edit, then Edit again.
If anyone is interested in my editing skills (or lack) they may be read on this site.
Comments please.
Oh, yes, Hi everyone.
Mon, Apr 5 2010 09:28am IST 20
Aiyla
Aiyla
454 Posts
*The Easter Bunny is a little behind schedule. He leaves a bag of chocolate eggs*
Thu, Jul 1 2010 10:08am IST 21
mark
mark
31 Posts
i reckon it'd be wise to practice your critiquiing just like you do your writing. before you post a critique, go down the list and check you're following the guidelines. to wander in and think you'll be brilliant at critiquing would, i think, be about as sensible as walking into a martial arts dojo with no training and challenging the instructor to a fight.

likewise with writing; i noticed one poster above who, like me, thought his first crack at writing was the business, and he was soon cut down to size. it's just not that simple unfortunately and the point is that there are so many ways of doing it badly
Thu, Jul 1 2010 07:45pm IST 22
Tony
Tony
1979 Posts
Your point is valid, Mark, but I'd suggest that (unlike writing, if it's intended for publication) critiquing doesn't always have to be masterly. It should certainly, always be honest, never vindictively slating nor over-indulgently fawning. But, while the more expert advice will be particularly helpful, not everyone here feels able to provide that. Some have held back altogether for that reason. Yet everyone can say what they liked or what didn't seem to make sense to them and those sort of comments are just as helpful to the writer as long as they are specific. So any of us can give useful feed back. Don't just say, 'I really enjoyed this.' That's nice, but not helpful. If you can add, 'particularly the way you managed to get across the atmosphere when your mc first entered the pub, but I didn't catch on until much later that the bartender was her ex...' that sort of thing. It's specific and therefore helpful, and anybody can do that.

Cool
Thu, Jul 1 2010 09:04pm IST 23
mark
mark
31 Posts
fair point tony and i think it would also be helpful when crtiquing to state where you pitch yourself, ie let them know whether you're a first-time critic or established editor and so on.

i had a cousin whose letters have just been published in which he says to one friend, after reading another's ms, "she's never going to improve if i don't give her my honest opinion". in this case she asked his opinion because she knew he was a novelist as well as reading ms for a publisher.

but... i got an awful crit once from an anonymous claw-sharpener whose comments were proved largely wrong in the end, and i can honestly say it's the only crit i ever had that did all harm and no good. so i'm naturally wary of commenting on other people's writing, particularly as i'm an awfully fussy reader; but i might give it a shot once i get past my current deadline...
Fri, Jul 2 2010 03:54am IST 24
Weens
Weens
993 Posts
This brings the argument full circle, you have to decide when to follow your own judgement. When posting for critique, you are putting yourself up for criticism, which bits you take and which bits you chuck out is completely up to you. There are ways of giving a critique nicely, it should always be constructive and not destructive and to me, that's key.
Fri, Jul 2 2010 08:19pm IST 25
mark
mark
31 Posts
absolutely. and to suggest, as someone did above, that there might sometimes be nothing at all positive you can say about someone's work, i think you can always at least commend them on having the courage to put something down on paper and then put it out there

Please login or sign up to post on this network.
Click here to sign up.