| Wed, Apr 29 2009 12:52pm IST 1 |

Jacquie
145 Posts
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| Wed, Apr 29 2009 01:49pm IST 2 |

PsychoPat
102 Posts
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Somebody once said that cinema made books an "antiquated
art-form". Now we're being told that they are an antiquated
format.
There's much more to the aesthetic appeal of books than there is
to, say, vinyl records compared to CDs. For example, when I buy a
new book, I spend the first minute or so sniffing it (I'm a
human, not a typing dog, I should explain). Possibly, Kindle
could get round this with some kind of scratch 'n' sniff gimmick,
but I doubt it :-0
The aesthetic appeal of regular books is very strong. I suppose
Kindle would be "greener" and that could give it great appeal to
some, but I can't really see what the market is, apart from a
short-lived trend among younger readers, for whom Kindle wouldn't
compete for long with other techno devices.
Possibly it will catch on, as the article suggests, as a way of
downloading the day's news or various papers for work or study;
but for pleasure?
Given that article, I'd say it already isn't catching on.
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| Wed, Apr 29 2009 04:12pm IST 3 |

Harry
315 Posts
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I think the effect could be quite broad, actually. Wouldn't
students, for example, like a Kindle for their textbooks, so that
their material could be both searchable and portable? And why only
students - what about anyone with a serious non-fiction interest
for similar reasons? And yes, newspaper & magazine content
would work well that way. And what about giving yourself an easy
library to take on holiday? Or to download at Paddington before a
long rail journey, thereby escaping the limitations of the platform
WHS?
The industry is braced for sweeping change. I think paper books
will go on existing pretty much for ever, but the digital sort will
certainly start to sit alongside them.
The outlook for writers? Probably not the best. Sigh.
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| Wed, Apr 29 2009 04:50pm IST 4 |

EmmaD
1797 Posts
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I think fiction will be the last genre where e-books will take over
- as Harry says, its searches and hyperlinks and updateability for
non-fiction which will win.
Until they can make an e-book which you can read on a sunny beach
or in the bath, which will still be readable when you've knocked
your drink over it, and won't bankrupt you to replace when you drop
it in a rockpool, I think the paper book is safe. As a piece of
efficient technology for transmitting continuous prose, it hasn't
been beaten yet.
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| Wed, Apr 29 2009 08:59pm IST 5 |

John Taylor
891 Posts
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The book is in much the same situation as the bicycle. It is
incredibly efficient at doing things that alternatives struggle to
achieve. And it's cheap.
Unlike the bicycle, for every potential book, there is a queue of
hundreds of authors dying to fill it with words. And it doesn't
get flat tyres.
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| Fri, May 1 2009 12:46pm IST 6 |

Jacquie
145 Posts
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Pat I like the fact that you sniff books.
I sniff books too. My parents had a library full of old Penguins.
They smelt different to the hardcovered books they bought. Our old
encyclopaedia had a bouquet all of its own.
I am sure the smell of a book changes subtly with each person that
handles it, with its geographical location and over time.
I will not go gently into the Kindle era.No, not I.
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| Fri, May 1 2009 03:21pm IST 7 |

Leila
54 Posts
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I went to a seminar at the London Book Fair with Puffin's
Spinebreakers team: keen teenage (14, 15 year old) readers who'll
be the adult readers of the future. As one, they said they were not
interested by e-books, Kindle, etc. They wanted books: paper,
cover, the whole aesthetic experience. One of them said - and I
think this puts it in a nutshell - "You read to get away from the
computer, don't you?"
Having said that, there's an argument that people don't know what
they want till it's offered to them, so I wouldn't write the
electronic word off just yet.
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| Fri, May 1 2009 05:29pm IST 8 |

Spangles
717 Posts
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Fellow Penguin sniffers! Hooray! No, wait, that doesn't sound
right.
I've just been asked to do some research on e-books and Kindle by
a friend who runs a tiny astrology publishing company. I can see
that they might have their uses, but can't imagine any true
book-lover curling up happily with a Kindle at night when they
could have the aesthetic experience of a real live book instead.
I love looking through my old books because I often find all
sorts of interesting things that I used as bookmarks, such as old
postcards. *
But maybe I'm just a deluded Luddite.
* I once read a book by someone who used to be a librarian, who
said a member of the public once returned a book with a fried egg
carefully inserted between the pages as a bookmark. When the
librarian queried this, the borrower said huffily that they
needed to keep their place and wouldn't have dreamt of turning
down the corner of the page.
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| Sat, May 2 2009 12:11pm IST 9 |

Bren
372 Posts
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Hi Spangles,
That's interesting. LOL at the fried egg for book mark. I used to
be a librarian many moons ago, and it was incredible the things
that people did to the books to remind themselves that they had
read it.
The Kindle, well I was tempted but like you there is something
satisfying about a book, it is animate, and they are personalised
as you suggest with bits and peices and memories of where bought
and read. I am batty about books, always have been, simply don't
understand it.
It is wonderful to meet like minded people on wordcloud; Harry, I
will love you forever.
I think there may be a place for a Kindle though, because I won't
have to store any more books, I am hopeless at parting with any,
consequently my rooms are piled high with books and shelves. And
they need dusting, occasionally, apparently, best done before
sniffed.
Are you plants romping away? Our lilac is stunning this year, I
love watching the passers by stopping to inhale the scent. I
usually bring armfuls indoors but it is giving me hayfever this
year.
Bren
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| Sat, May 2 2009 01:06pm IST 10 |

Jacquie
145 Posts
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You know the ONE good thing about kindle - I really hate admiting
this but I have to - is that it will help save the forests and slow
down biodiversity loss ( as the demand for paper declines less
naatural habitats will have to succumb to the planting of
cultivated pines etc.) Oh dear.
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| Sun, May 3 2009 09:07am IST 11 |

Spangles
717 Posts
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Bren, yes everything here is gearing itself up to burst forth and
multiply. (And not only the comfrey seedlings coming up in the
front garden.) It's all-systems-go here on the veg front. We've
turned the front garden into two veg and flower plots. The broad
beans are coming into flower, and I think some of the tomatoes in
the greenhouse are also starting to form flower buds.
I didn't think we had any lilac (the classic scent of May, for
me) but I spotted a few plumes of it yesterday coming through
from next door.
Jacquie, I see what you mean about Kindle saving paper, but I
wonder what the environmental impact will be when all the current
models are dumped in landfills because something brighter and
more exciting has come on the market. And I wonder about the
pollution caused by their manufacture. Also, will we be able to
afford the electricity to run them? On the other hand, the ink
used in printing can be very bad for the environment (although
that's changing).
Is it just me or was life once much simpler?
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| Sun, May 3 2009 09:39am IST 12 |

Jacquie
145 Posts
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For sure - life was much simpler once way back when -
particularly when the majority of us were not literate. All you
say about the life cycle impacts of something like kindle are
true. And yes, apparently printing inks have improved. But the
impacts of paper production are immense - the water and air
pollution involved = sickening especially if it takes place in
third world countries or those with emerging economies where
environmental laws are either non-existent OR not adequately
enforced ( All of Africa - most of Asia). Sigh. The impacts of
literacy. But there I go again - all gloom and doom and it is a
BEAUTIFUL day outside . Bright blue sky, early winter coolness
and all my aloes are in bloom (attracting so many birds - mostly
scarlet chested sunbirds!) Hoep you have a great Sunday
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| Tue, May 5 2009 01:42pm IST 13 |

PsychoPat
102 Posts
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The Kindle Swindle.
OK, I only said that because it rhymes.
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| Fri, May 8 2009 08:59am IST 14 |

dj
22 Posts
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I know this will make me sound very ignorant (or will show my age)
but I have never heard of a Kindle. I assume it is a device for
downloading e-books. Give me the feel and smell and companionship
of a real book any day.
Debi
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| Fri, May 8 2009 10:30am IST 15 |

Spangles
717 Posts
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Hear hear, Debi!
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| Fri, May 8 2009 12:26pm IST 16 |

Jacquie
145 Posts
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hear hear hear - but I guess this does show our age . Long live
book sniffing.
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| Fri, May 8 2009 01:56pm IST 17 |

EzBloke
400 Posts
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Hmmm...
Read any manuscript that lurks deep in the pits of your pc hard
drive, then print it and tell me you cannot see a
difference.
I have read my work dozens of times on the pc, only to print it
and find I spelt the "teh" again.
(Although this could be because of printer pixies, tbh...)
Sadly the book smell dialogue above warns me that Kindle 3.0 (the
next (non-existent) version) will contain an aromatherapy
distribution nozzle.
Or worse; feedback! Kindle 4.0 will know at what point you are in
"The Bride Of Frankenstein" and issue a small "electrical shock"
(which is actually a vibration but you are fooled because you are
distracted...) when the iris tracking camera detects that you are
reading the spooky bit...
Or, the other kind of feedback; you start getting emails from
disgruntled writers that "notice you have yet to finish chapter
seven of my life's work..." because the traitorous little device
has emailed him behind your back.
Although... having said that... maybe I could have a double-page
kindle where the story unfolds on the left hand pane whilst the
right hand pane explains Terry Pratchett’s jokes/puns and hidden
meanings...? Or shall I just continue to wait for the student
dissemination and re-read his novels armed with a new angle and
renewed interest?
On my third hand... um... as a wannabe author, I can play with
fonts and colour and art that doesn't have to be black and white
line-art - in a fantasy novel. Oh,
wait... nope, you can do that already...
Will I kindle... yes
Will it replace the printed book? In time... maybe. But not in
it's current unadulterated format.
Will we be flooded with low grade, poorly contrived trash due to
a quicker/cheaper route to market? I bloody hope so, because I'm
probably less likely to be published in the traditional way. If 1
in 10 people in the UK alledgedly have a book in them, Currently
1 in a thousand would write it, 1 in a hundred thousand would
finish it and maybe 1 in a million would get it published - but
if e-booking took off... I can write, edit, illustrate and
publish all on my own. In a couple of weeks... yay me!
Poor you, because it will be utter "less" (plotless, lifeless,
emotionless the list is endless) rubbish.
But there, amongst the detritus is a gem; a piece of art that
counts tears in gallons, but for the e-book industry would never
previously have seen dusty fingers stroking the shelves of a
library and never have felt the whisper of air over ink laden
pages.
And is there another danger?
If electronic "reading" is easier and cheaper than traditional
books and e-publishing becomes "open", then is it possible the
printing/publishing industries could diminish and decay?
But for that to truly happen, and a death knoll is sounded for
"the book", Kindle has to offer more than the book itself. Over
and above the reading experience; not just in fancy widgets that
hook me to a dictionary or encyclopaedia, but the book I read
needs to come with a "making of" segment and "deleted scenes" and
"writers commentary" and the author reading the piece for the
blind and fantastic pictures or artwork and crib notes and links
to discussion boards and the authors homepage, blog and the
tweets made during their long journey up to the email that loaded
everything onto your e-book... I won't read any of it, but at
least I get all that for the price of a book...
It's how cd's and dvd's have all but killed off vinyl. Extra
capacity means extra content. Value add.
(Be warned: if the porn industry gets hold of Kindle then it will
be messy... They could do for kindle what they did for colour
lithography at the turn of the century, or High Definition DVD/TV
more recently - and watch out for 3D TV, I promise you; if the
porn industry decides this is the way to go, and then it will be
big.)
For me the greatest danger remains in the plethora of dross that
could flood an open/free market; how long before "home"
e-publishing becomes de-rigueur and "indie" books become
prevalent?
Is it then that the value of the pearl diver, the knowledgeable
and expert critic in an ocean of e-books, will sky rocket? Why
waste time buying a story until reading its review by a trusted
expert.
Ez
PS I love the smell of books too
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| Sun, May 10 2009 04:48pm IST 18 |

Jacquie
145 Posts
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HEY EZ ! Blog this PLEASE blog this. Brilliant piece of writing
......move it out of here and onto the blog site immediatialy J
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| Tue, May 12 2009 09:14am IST 19 |

EzBloke
400 Posts
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Lol,
Ummmm... I would if I knew how...
Sorry, it is a tad long isn't it?
:o)
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| Tue, May 12 2009 12:03pm IST 20 |

EzBloke
400 Posts
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Oooo, it's easier than I thought...
:o)
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| Tue, May 12 2009 12:14pm IST 21 |

Ancient Woodland
577 Posts
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I'm torn on this issue.
It's been a while since I sniffed a book and I have to say that I
would never admit to sniffing a Penguin. Although I guess it's nice
to have the option available. I could of course simply carry about
my son's stuffed Pingu toy for the occasional illicit stimulation
of the old olfactory organ but I suspect it smells more of dog
slebber than penguin, the slimy trails and teeth marks in the
abdomen suggest as much.
On one hand, I hate the idea of electronic books. There is
something strangely satisfying about holding a paperback in the
hand, spread wide with the fingers as the content is devoured and
digested. Something about the time it takes to hurriedly turn a
page gives little peaks of tension that add to the thrill of the
story.
Then there is the multitude of social uses books can be put to that
makes them stand out from a grey sliver of plastic.
There’s the way that a book can be used in a bar where that
mad-eyed guy in the corner is not someone you wish to discuss which
football team you support with. A book can come in handy, it says
"Look, I can read, I'm harmless, a geek. No need to bother me, I'm
so deep in this book, I wouldn't hear you threatening me anyway."
It is remarkably small for the degree of cover its camouflage
affords.
Whereas its counterpart is an expensive piece of electronic
equipment which is eminently pawnable. Going for a pee under these
circumstances is virtually guaranteed to have you leaving the scene
in an emergency vehicle, a kilo or so lighter.
There is something serene about the air of quiet contemplation that
the act of reading a book in public grants its wielder, suggesting
perhaps that the reader may be one who you can enjoy a stimulating
and intelligent conversation with. It allows the opposite sex an
easy intro too, lessening the stress of that awkward initial
encounter.
“Ohh! I love that author, I didn’t know he had a new book out. Any
good?”
“Ooh yes. It’s a deep and invigorating piece of work that
penetrates to the core, stimulating and engorging the senses with
its heart pounding pace and stamina.”
“Whimper.”
On the other side of the coin, it opens the door for a polite
rebuttal.
“Look, F off will ya? I’d just got to the bit where the mouse
finally meets the Gruffalo and now I’ve gone and lost my
place!”
Its counterpart gives nothing away, not title or author, leaving no
opening to exploit.
Seriously though, on the other hand, as an aspiring author, I find
it difficult to look upon this as anything but good for the
industry for a number of reasons.
1). It widens the audience – you can now get an e-book app for your
iPhone. So you are not forced to spend several hundred quid on a
Kindle. I expect other mobile phone manufacturers to pick up on
this and for one of them to come out with a fold out double screen,
just like opening a book. When this happens, I will buy one. Not
before.
2). It makes the purchase of books simpler, quicker (virtually no
delivery time) and, hopefully, cheaper. For normal publication I
believe an author can expect to receive around 7.5-10% of the cover
price. E-books should be substantially cheaper to publish and
distribute with savings all along the line. This either ends up
with a higher profit margin which equates to a larger cut for the
author or an increase in sales for a cheaper product.
3). No postage and packaging!
4). A growth in electronic publishers. With lessened risk (not
sitting on a run of 40,000 books), publishers may once again allow
a departure from mainstream, safe, work. Publishing is a very tight
industry at the moment. It could do with loosening off a
little.
5). Books are expensive. With lower prices, people will be more
willing to experiment with new talent. I may finally have the
chance of getting my work read by Joe Bloggs.
6). I’d like to see a screen displaying title and author on the
reverse side of the Kindle/iPhone/Widget. It would allow impulse
buys to flourish. See something you like in someone else’s hands?
Buy it right now. New publication from your favourite author? Have
it on publication day.
7). Save the rainforest - download the daily newspaper/weekly
magazine.
I do not think electronic publishing will ever take over from the
real thing. There is an indefinable tactile joy to be had from a
real book. Also, I love browsing through my library in the house
and cannot see myself wholly replacing that with a piece of
electronic kit. How would I display my love of the written word to
my guests? A piece of gray plastic on the mantle does not have the
same impact.
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| Tue, May 12 2009 12:58pm IST 22 |

Spangles
717 Posts
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I think a big snag with e-books is going to be piracy and
protecting the rights of the authors involved. This is already a
growing problem, as described here:
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| Tue, May 12 2009 01:33pm IST 23 |

Jacquie
145 Posts
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Hmmmmmmmm AW - this is what I see will happen in the future...
e-books WILL rule ...despite protestations from us Penguin
sniffers.
But it will be remembered that a shelf of books in a home brought a
sense of - well, what ? - warm, comforting knowledge - that feeling
of friendship ( books are like old friends, right ?) the feeling
that one need never needs to be bored or lonesome, that one can be
transported away from one's mundane life, just by reaching up and
taking down one of those old friends.
SO - it will become a status symbol to store ones grey, cold
electonic book equipment ( I dunno what this will be actually...
but I have an image... of old tape cassettes or something like that
... excuse my ignorance) on shelves that LOOK like they have a
library of books on them ( this will probably be made from plastic
made in China and made to look like leather bound volumes
etc)
Ja, that's what I think will happen - we will all rush out and buy
faux libraries behind which we will store our e books.
I was horrifieed yesterday. One of my husbands çolleagues very
proudly plugged me into an audio book she had recently downloaded
off the web - beautiful it was to hear through her MP3 player -
Barbara Kingsolver reading some of her evocative essays right into
my skull. She was there, Barbara Kingsolver right inside my head
with her perfectly balanced poetic prose and lyrical voice... Ja ,
nee I don't know what to say.... I really dont.
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| Tue, May 12 2009 01:57pm IST 24 |

EzBloke
400 Posts
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I forgot about piracy Spangles - how many bands would be number one
if only "records" showed one person bought their CD but bred it a
billion times?
How do you cope knowing that as an aspiring author, that your
income is going to go the same way?
And let's face it, authors are not known for our multi-million
dollar cosmetic/advertising deals, are we? So much so that we could
be careless over a few million copies here and there.
Although... I am now determined to be the first author to "sell
out" to the man and get me an advertising deal. What do you reckon?
EzBloke uses Ronseals new Inyeranusol - it does exactly what it
says on the tin! "Yers, well as a writer I find I'm sitting down
all day growing wrath grapes like beef tomatoes but when I tried
Ronseals new Inyeranusol I was sitting six inches lower and my
writing is soooo angst free..."
AW; Twice. Twice today you have made me laugh out loud. Please
stop. There are people here at work that are beginning to get
suspicious.
Ez.
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