To Kindle or not to Kindle ? Is it tragic to think that books as we know them may become extinct? Or doesn't it matter?

Wed, Apr 29 2009 12:52pm IST 1
Jacquie
Jacquie
145 Posts
how do authors feel about the new Kindle craze - a craze, I fear, that could become the norm as Kindles become cheaper over time. I personally hate the idea.

Check out this article
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/fashion/26kindle.html?ref=books
Wed, Apr 29 2009 01:49pm IST 2
PsychoPat
PsychoPat
102 Posts

Somebody once said that cinema made books an "antiquated art-form". Now we're being told that they are an antiquated format.

There's much more to the aesthetic appeal of books than there is to, say, vinyl records compared to CDs. For example, when I buy a new book, I spend the first minute or so sniffing it (I'm a human, not a typing dog, I should explain). Possibly, Kindle could get round this with some kind of scratch 'n' sniff gimmick, but I doubt it :-0

The aesthetic appeal of regular books is very strong. I suppose Kindle would be "greener" and that could give it great appeal to some, but I can't really see what the market is, apart from a short-lived trend among younger readers, for whom Kindle wouldn't compete for long with other techno devices.

Possibly it will catch on, as the article suggests, as a way of downloading the day's news or various papers for work or study; but for pleasure?

Given that article, I'd say it already isn't catching on.

Wed, Apr 29 2009 04:12pm IST 3
Harry
Harry
315 Posts
I think the effect could be quite broad, actually. Wouldn't students, for example, like a Kindle for their textbooks, so that their material could be both searchable and portable? And why only students - what about anyone with a serious non-fiction interest for similar reasons? And yes, newspaper & magazine content would work well that way. And what about giving yourself an easy library to take on holiday? Or to download at Paddington before a long rail journey, thereby escaping the limitations of the platform WHS?

The industry is braced for sweeping change. I think paper books will go on existing pretty much for ever, but the digital sort will certainly start to sit alongside them.

The outlook for writers? Probably not the best. Sigh.
Wed, Apr 29 2009 04:50pm IST 4
EmmaD
EmmaD
1801 Posts
I think fiction will be the last genre where e-books will take over - as Harry says, its searches and hyperlinks and updateability for non-fiction which will win.

Until they can make an e-book which you can read on a sunny beach or in the bath, which will still be readable when you've knocked your drink over it, and won't bankrupt you to replace when you drop it in a rockpool, I think the paper book is safe. As a piece of efficient technology for transmitting continuous prose, it hasn't been beaten yet.
Wed, Apr 29 2009 08:59pm IST 5
John Taylor
John Taylor
891 Posts
The book is in much the same situation as the bicycle. It is incredibly efficient at doing things that alternatives struggle to achieve. And it's cheap.

Unlike the bicycle, for every potential book, there is a queue of hundreds of authors dying to fill it with words. And it doesn't get flat tyres.
Fri, May 1 2009 12:46pm IST 6
Jacquie
Jacquie
145 Posts
Pat I like the fact that you sniff books.
I sniff books too. My parents had a library full of old Penguins. They smelt different to the hardcovered books they bought. Our old encyclopaedia had a bouquet all of its own.
I am sure the smell of a book changes subtly with each person that handles it, with its geographical location and over time.
I will not go gently into the Kindle era.No, not I.
Fri, May 1 2009 03:21pm IST 7
Leila
Leila
54 Posts
I went to a seminar at the London Book Fair with Puffin's Spinebreakers team: keen teenage (14, 15 year old) readers who'll be the adult readers of the future. As one, they said they were not interested by e-books, Kindle, etc. They wanted books: paper, cover, the whole aesthetic experience. One of them said - and I think this puts it in a nutshell - "You read to get away from the computer, don't you?"

Having said that, there's an argument that people don't know what they want till it's offered to them, so I wouldn't write the electronic word off just yet.
Fri, May 1 2009 05:29pm IST 8
Spangles
Spangles
722 Posts
Fellow Penguin sniffers! Hooray! No, wait, that doesn't sound right.

I've just been asked to do some research on e-books and Kindle by a friend who runs a tiny astrology publishing company. I can see that they might have their uses, but can't imagine any true book-lover curling up happily with a Kindle at night when they could have the aesthetic experience of a real live book instead. I love looking through my old books because I often find all sorts of interesting things that I used as bookmarks, such as old postcards. *

But maybe I'm just a deluded Luddite.

* I once read a book by someone who used to be a librarian, who said a member of the public once returned a book with a fried egg carefully inserted between the pages as a bookmark. When the librarian queried this, the borrower said huffily that they needed to keep their place and wouldn't have dreamt of turning down the corner of the page.
Sat, May 2 2009 12:11pm IST 9
Bren
Bren
372 Posts

Hi Spangles,
That's interesting. LOL at the fried egg for book mark. I used to be a librarian many moons ago, and it was incredible the things that people did to the books to remind themselves that they had read it.

The Kindle, well I was tempted but like you there is something satisfying about a book, it is animate, and they are personalised as you suggest with bits and peices and memories of where bought and read. I am batty about books, always have been, simply don't understand it.
It is wonderful to meet like minded people on wordcloud; Harry, I will love you forever.

I think there may be a place for a Kindle though, because I won't have to store any more books, I am hopeless at parting with any, consequently my rooms are piled high with books and shelves. And they need dusting, occasionally, apparently, best done before sniffed.

Are you plants romping away? Our lilac is stunning this year, I love watching the passers by stopping to inhale the scent. I usually bring armfuls indoors but it is giving me hayfever this year.

Bren

Sat, May 2 2009 01:06pm IST 10
Jacquie
Jacquie
145 Posts
You know the ONE good thing about kindle - I really hate admiting this but I have to - is that it will help save the forests and slow down biodiversity loss ( as the demand for paper declines less naatural habitats will have to succumb to the planting of cultivated pines etc.) Oh dear.
Sun, May 3 2009 09:07am IST 11
Spangles
Spangles
722 Posts
Bren, yes everything here is gearing itself up to burst forth and multiply. (And not only the comfrey seedlings coming up in the front garden.) It's all-systems-go here on the veg front. We've turned the front garden into two veg and flower plots. The broad beans are coming into flower, and I think some of the tomatoes in the greenhouse are also starting to form flower buds.

I didn't think we had any lilac (the classic scent of May, for me) but I spotted a few plumes of it yesterday coming through from next door.

Jacquie, I see what you mean about Kindle saving paper, but I wonder what the environmental impact will be when all the current models are dumped in landfills because something brighter and more exciting has come on the market. And I wonder about the pollution caused by their manufacture. Also, will we be able to afford the electricity to run them? On the other hand, the ink used in printing can be very bad for the environment (although that's changing).

Is it just me or was life once much simpler?
Sun, May 3 2009 09:39am IST 12
Jacquie
Jacquie
145 Posts

For sure - life was much simpler once way back when - particularly when the majority of us were not literate. All you say about the life cycle impacts of something like kindle are true. And yes, apparently printing inks have improved. But the impacts of paper production are immense - the water and air pollution involved = sickening especially if it takes place in third world countries or those with emerging economies where environmental laws are either non-existent OR not adequately enforced ( All of Africa - most of Asia). Sigh. The impacts of literacy. But there I go again - all gloom and doom and it is a BEAUTIFUL day outside . Bright blue sky, early winter coolness and all my aloes are in bloom (attracting so many birds - mostly scarlet chested sunbirds!) Hoep you have a great Sunday

Tue, May 5 2009 01:42pm IST 13
PsychoPat
PsychoPat
102 Posts

The Kindle Swindle.

OK, I only said that because it rhymes.

Fri, May 8 2009 08:59am IST 14
dj
dj
22 Posts
I know this will make me sound very ignorant (or will show my age) but I have never heard of a Kindle. I assume it is a device for downloading e-books. Give me the feel and smell and companionship of a real book any day.
Debi
Fri, May 8 2009 10:30am IST 15
Spangles
Spangles
722 Posts
Hear hear, Debi!
Fri, May 8 2009 12:26pm IST 16
Jacquie
Jacquie
145 Posts
hear hear hear - but I guess this does show our age . Long live book sniffing.
Fri, May 8 2009 01:56pm IST 17
EzBloke
EzBloke
400 Posts

Hmmm...

Read any manuscript that lurks deep in the pits of your pc hard drive, then print it and tell me you cannot see a difference.
I have read my work dozens of times on the pc, only to print it and find I spelt the "teh" again.
(Although this could be because of printer pixies, tbh...)

Sadly the book smell dialogue above warns me that Kindle 3.0 (the next (non-existent) version) will contain an aromatherapy distribution nozzle.
Or worse; feedback! Kindle 4.0 will know at what point you are in "The Bride Of Frankenstein" and issue a small "electrical shock" (which is actually a vibration but you are fooled because you are distracted...) when the iris tracking camera detects that you are reading the spooky bit...
Or, the other kind of feedback; you start getting emails from disgruntled writers that "notice you have yet to finish chapter seven of my life's work..." because the traitorous little device has emailed him behind your back.

Although... having said that... maybe I could have a double-page kindle where the story unfolds on the left hand pane whilst the right hand pane explains Terry Pratchett’s jokes/puns and hidden meanings...? Or shall I just continue to wait for the student dissemination and re-read his novels armed with a new angle and renewed interest?

On my third hand... um... as a wannabe author, I can play with fonts and colour and art that doesn't have to be black and white line-art - in a fantasy novel. Oh, wait... nope, you can do that already...

Will I kindle... yes
Will it replace the printed book? In time... maybe. But not in it's current unadulterated format.

Will we be flooded with low grade, poorly contrived trash due to a quicker/cheaper route to market? I bloody hope so, because I'm probably less likely to be published in the traditional way. If 1 in 10 people in the UK alledgedly have a book in them, Currently 1 in a thousand would write it, 1 in a hundred thousand would finish it and maybe 1 in a million would get it published - but if e-booking took off... I can write, edit, illustrate and publish all on my own. In a couple of weeks... yay me! Poor you, because it will be utter "less" (plotless, lifeless, emotionless the list is endless) rubbish.

But there, amongst the detritus is a gem; a piece of art that counts tears in gallons, but for the e-book industry would never previously have seen dusty fingers stroking the shelves of a library and never have felt the whisper of air over ink laden pages.

And is there another danger?
If electronic "reading" is easier and cheaper than traditional books and e-publishing becomes "open", then is it possible the printing/publishing industries could diminish and decay?

But for that to truly happen, and a death knoll is sounded for "the book", Kindle has to offer more than the book itself. Over and above the reading experience; not just in fancy widgets that hook me to a dictionary or encyclopaedia, but the book I read needs to come with a "making of" segment and "deleted scenes" and "writers commentary" and the author reading the piece for the blind and fantastic pictures or artwork and crib notes and links to discussion boards and the authors homepage, blog and the tweets made during their long journey up to the email that loaded everything onto your e-book... I won't read any of it, but at least I get all that for the price of a book...
It's how cd's and dvd's have all but killed off vinyl. Extra capacity means extra content. Value add.
(Be warned: if the porn industry gets hold of Kindle then it will be messy... They could do for kindle what they did for colour lithography at the turn of the century, or High Definition DVD/TV more recently - and watch out for 3D TV, I promise you; if the porn industry decides this is the way to go, and then it will be big.)

For me the greatest danger remains in the plethora of dross that could flood an open/free market; how long before "home" e-publishing becomes de-rigueur and "indie" books become prevalent?
Is it then that the value of the pearl diver, the knowledgeable and expert critic in an ocean of e-books, will sky rocket? Why waste time buying a story until reading its review by a trusted expert.

Ez
PS I love the smell of books too

Sun, May 10 2009 04:48pm IST 18
Jacquie
Jacquie
145 Posts
HEY EZ ! Blog this PLEASE blog this. Brilliant piece of writing ......move it out of here and onto the blog site immediatialy J
Tue, May 12 2009 09:14am IST 19
EzBloke
EzBloke
400 Posts
Lol,

Ummmm... I would if I knew how...

Sorry, it is a tad long isn't it?

:o)
Tue, May 12 2009 12:03pm IST 20
EzBloke
EzBloke
400 Posts
Oooo, it's easier than I thought...
:o)
Tue, May 12 2009 12:14pm IST 21
Ancient Woodland
Ancient Woodland
577 Posts
I'm torn on this issue.

It's been a while since I sniffed a book and I have to say that I would never admit to sniffing a Penguin. Although I guess it's nice to have the option available. I could of course simply carry about my son's stuffed Pingu toy for the occasional illicit stimulation of the old olfactory organ but I suspect it smells more of dog slebber than penguin, the slimy trails and teeth marks in the abdomen suggest as much.

On one hand, I hate the idea of electronic books. There is something strangely satisfying about holding a paperback in the hand, spread wide with the fingers as the content is devoured and digested. Something about the time it takes to hurriedly turn a page gives little peaks of tension that add to the thrill of the story.

Then there is the multitude of social uses books can be put to that makes them stand out from a grey sliver of plastic.
There’s the way that a book can be used in a bar where that mad-eyed guy in the corner is not someone you wish to discuss which football team you support with. A book can come in handy, it says "Look, I can read, I'm harmless, a geek. No need to bother me, I'm so deep in this book, I wouldn't hear you threatening me anyway." It is remarkably small for the degree of cover its camouflage affords.
Whereas its counterpart is an expensive piece of electronic equipment which is eminently pawnable. Going for a pee under these circumstances is virtually guaranteed to have you leaving the scene in an emergency vehicle, a kilo or so lighter.

There is something serene about the air of quiet contemplation that the act of reading a book in public grants its wielder, suggesting perhaps that the reader may be one who you can enjoy a stimulating and intelligent conversation with. It allows the opposite sex an easy intro too, lessening the stress of that awkward initial encounter.
“Ohh! I love that author, I didn’t know he had a new book out. Any good?”
“Ooh yes. It’s a deep and invigorating piece of work that penetrates to the core, stimulating and engorging the senses with its heart pounding pace and stamina.”
“Whimper.”
On the other side of the coin, it opens the door for a polite rebuttal.
“Look, F off will ya? I’d just got to the bit where the mouse finally meets the Gruffalo and now I’ve gone and lost my place!”
Its counterpart gives nothing away, not title or author, leaving no opening to exploit.

Seriously though, on the other hand, as an aspiring author, I find it difficult to look upon this as anything but good for the industry for a number of reasons.
1). It widens the audience – you can now get an e-book app for your iPhone. So you are not forced to spend several hundred quid on a Kindle. I expect other mobile phone manufacturers to pick up on this and for one of them to come out with a fold out double screen, just like opening a book. When this happens, I will buy one. Not before.
2). It makes the purchase of books simpler, quicker (virtually no delivery time) and, hopefully, cheaper. For normal publication I believe an author can expect to receive around 7.5-10% of the cover price. E-books should be substantially cheaper to publish and distribute with savings all along the line. This either ends up with a higher profit margin which equates to a larger cut for the author or an increase in sales for a cheaper product.
3). No postage and packaging!
4). A growth in electronic publishers. With lessened risk (not sitting on a run of 40,000 books), publishers may once again allow a departure from mainstream, safe, work. Publishing is a very tight industry at the moment. It could do with loosening off a little.
5). Books are expensive. With lower prices, people will be more willing to experiment with new talent. I may finally have the chance of getting my work read by Joe Bloggs.
6). I’d like to see a screen displaying title and author on the reverse side of the Kindle/iPhone/Widget. It would allow impulse buys to flourish. See something you like in someone else’s hands? Buy it right now. New publication from your favourite author? Have it on publication day.
7). Save the rainforest - download the daily newspaper/weekly magazine.

I do not think electronic publishing will ever take over from the real thing. There is an indefinable tactile joy to be had from a real book. Also, I love browsing through my library in the house and cannot see myself wholly replacing that with a piece of electronic kit. How would I display my love of the written word to my guests? A piece of gray plastic on the mantle does not have the same impact.
Tue, May 12 2009 12:58pm IST 22
Spangles
Spangles
722 Posts
I think a big snag with e-books is going to be piracy and protecting the rights of the authors involved. This is already a growing problem, as described here:

Tue, May 12 2009 01:33pm IST 23
Jacquie
Jacquie
145 Posts
Hmmmmmmmm AW - this is what I see will happen in the future... e-books WILL rule ...despite protestations from us Penguin sniffers.
But it will be remembered that a shelf of books in a home brought a sense of - well, what ? - warm, comforting knowledge - that feeling of friendship ( books are like old friends, right ?) the feeling that one need never needs to be bored or lonesome, that one can be transported away from one's mundane life, just by reaching up and taking down one of those old friends.

SO - it will become a status symbol to store ones grey, cold electonic book equipment ( I dunno what this will be actually... but I have an image... of old tape cassettes or something like that ... excuse my ignorance) on shelves that LOOK like they have a library of books on them ( this will probably be made from plastic made in China and made to look like leather bound volumes etc)

Ja, that's what I think will happen - we will all rush out and buy faux libraries behind which we will store our e books.

I was horrifieed yesterday. One of my husbands çolleagues very proudly plugged me into an audio book she had recently downloaded off the web - beautiful it was to hear through her MP3 player - Barbara Kingsolver reading some of her evocative essays right into my skull. She was there, Barbara Kingsolver right inside my head with her perfectly balanced poetic prose and lyrical voice... Ja , nee I don't know what to say.... I really dont.

Tue, May 12 2009 01:57pm IST 24
EzBloke
EzBloke
400 Posts
I forgot about piracy Spangles - how many bands would be number one if only "records" showed one person bought their CD but bred it a billion times?
How do you cope knowing that as an aspiring author, that your income is going to go the same way?
And let's face it, authors are not known for our multi-million dollar cosmetic/advertising deals, are we? So much so that we could be careless over a few million copies here and there.

Although... I am now determined to be the first author to "sell out" to the man and get me an advertising deal. What do you reckon? EzBloke uses Ronseals new Inyeranusol - it does exactly what it says on the tin! "Yers, well as a writer I find I'm sitting down all day growing wrath grapes like beef tomatoes but when I tried Ronseals new Inyeranusol I was sitting six inches lower and my writing is soooo angst free..."

AW; Twice. Twice today you have made me laugh out loud. Please stop. There are people here at work that are beginning to get suspicious.

Ez.

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