The Word Cloud

Hi!

So, I had my first rejection. Not a nice feeling at all! And although I completely understand that agents are very busy people, the standard rejection slip is hard to take. I find myself thinking, was it just not right for them? Or did they think it was utter crap? Guess I'll never know!

I'm wondering how many rejections do you receive before you look at your book again? And also, what do you look at when you don't know what the problem is? The writing, the story, etc.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you :)

Ow! Ow! Ow! Bad luck - it does hurt, doesn't it.

I'd normally suggest that ten to twelve rejections with no suggestion as to why, means that you're unlikely to get a more positive response if you go on.

One thing I would suggest is to resist the temptation to keep on re-reading it, and/or fiddling with it, while you're waiting. The waiting time is agony, but it's a god-given chance to get some distance from the book. Get stuck into something else, and then when all the responses are in and you finally come back to this one, you may very well find that you've got a fresh pair of eyes to see it, and see what's not working and maybe have some new ideas about what to do about it. Specially if you've been writing something else, because you learn more with each project you embark on.

Another thing that can have the same effect is to do a course, to work generally on your writing, and then go back to the book. Or perhaps get hold of a how-to-write book - maybe on self-editing? It's never a good idea to take one book's ideas as gospel, but they can open your eyes to things that aren't working, or which maybe you've never thought about.

You could also see if you can find a trusted reader - perhaps a manuscript swap with a Cloudy who's writing the same kind of thing, and whose own writing you admire? If all else fails, you could go for an editorial report, though that's an expensive habit. (Courses aren't a no-cost option either, obviously. But I think spending money on generally making you a better writer can make it more worth it than it might at first appear...)

Ouchiw, Snowy! But good on you for sending stuff out - that always takes guts!

If you need a beta reader, my offer still stands... goodness knows, I can't write for myself right now, and it'll give me something structured to do in the insanity that is my life right now.

xx

Thank you, Emma. Great advice. Went straight over to Amazon to look up some books!

Hey, Elysia. I did it on a whim really. Not sure it's anywhere near ready! And yes, I actually forgot all about our little deal! Been too busy chewing my nails off with nerves! I'll be over to our little corner in a minute...

And yep, it definitely hurts. Like a punch in the gut. Need to toughen up! One rejection and I'm heart broken!

:)

You're welcome.

And talking of new eyes, when you do go back to it, I'd suggest not opening the file at Chapter one and starting to correct things, but printing it off or putting it on an e-reader or something, and reading the whole darn thing through as if it wasn't your novel at all, but someone else's. Like a reader, in other words.

Make notes as you go about what's not working, but don't try and put it right there and then.

Then have a think about the best way to tackle everything that's come up (Chapter by chapter? plot-thread by thread? Structure first, characterisation next?)

And only start doing it when you've got a good, solid plan of action.

Thank you so much! I definitely needed this advice.

I have a question about getting somone to read it. I have a friend of a friend who I don't really know well. I've met her a few times. She's a young adult and likes the books I like, so I'm wondering if she's a good person to ask. She doesn't write, so she would just read as a reader. My sister knows her better and says she's very trustworthy.

Is it a good idea to let her read? I'm never sure if it's a good idea to just pass it to someone!

I mean a random teen instead of someone on here...

I think it depends if you can trust yourself not to be derailed by what she says, or go pulling the whole novel apart just because she says she doesn't believe X would have fallen in love with Y: it may not be that X and Y aren't right for each other, but much more that you haven't evoked the things which make them compatible vividly enough. In other words. There are lots of things any of us can say about a book which are perfectly true, but not helpful to the writer - "I just didn't like the main character" could be about your MC not being likeable, or it could be about the reader, IYSWIM, who's always irritated by ditsy characters, or whatever.

I blogged about things to think about in choosing (and listening to) a critiquer. Some aren't relevant if she doesn't write, but it might help to think about what you might need to ignore, and what to listen to:

http://emmadarwin.typepad.com/thisitchofwriting/2011/11/17-questions-to-ask-a-critique-and-some-to-ask-about-a-critiquer.html

Snowflake - I got loads of rejections on my first draft! Every one is a bit of a jolt, isn't it? Another hope dashed...but it doesn't have to be. If you're going to ask folk to read the book, I'd be tempted to choose people whose opinion I valued...the friend who writes drama...the committee member who is really hot on punctuation...a couple of teachers who teach the age group I'm aiming at...(which is what I did after my rejections forced a radical rework). Hopefully the folk you know and approach will be honest with you, even if what you hear isn't necessarily to your liking.
I'm working on the theory (especially now I'm here on the cloud) that if several people pick up the same flaws, they're probably right...but some I take with a pinch of salt because it appears more a case of personal preference.
Don't know if that helps or not? Being brave enough to approach an agent is sometimes the very thing that'll grab their attention in the first place, so keep trying.

One thing to bear in mind, Snowflake, is not to read anything into a standard rejection slip. It just says that the agent (or the person who went through the pile of manuscripts) doesn't want it. The reasons for rejection could just as easily lie with them: too many submissions, or too many submissions of a similar nature, for instance. Keep the slip as a trophy (I've got mine pinned up!) and move on.

Emma is (always) right. ;-) But so is John when he says that you can't assume anything after receiving a single rejection. If you need proof, have a look at this post:
http://debialper.blogspot.com/2011/01/thickest-skin.html

Gird your loins, wipe the tears and keep on keeping on. Or you'll never know what might have been waiting for you round the next corner if you hadn't given up ...

I'm sitting on my MS as I type, too afraid to send it out for fear of rejection. I've been kidding myself by saying that I'm waiting until I've been to the FOW to send it anywhere, but really I'm just being a coward. The idea of sending it out makes me hot and prickly with nerves. So, at least you've taken that first step, and been brave enough to send it out. Hannah x

I've had three rejections out of four submissions (3 to agents, 1 to a small publisher). I've had no reply from the fourth. All three have been nicely worded rejections and the latest, from the small publishers, reads as follows:

"Thank you very much for submitting the synopsis and first chapters of your novel 'Flicked' and I'm sorry it has taken me such a disgracefully long time to reply. I enjoyed reading your submission, but unfortunately - despite the polish of your writing and the dramatic start to the book - I don't think the novel is right for our list.

Although our fiction publishing has grown recently our grand total is still only around five novels a year, so we are expanding, but very cautiously. We have to be absolutely convinced by the books we decide to publish, and sure we can market them to reach the widest possible audience.

There was a great deal that I thought was excellent in these first chapters, particularly the pace and precision of your writing, but overall I didn't feel strongly enough about it to be able to consider it for our list. I am very sorry about this, but I hope you will find a publisher keen to take the book on and give it the support it deserves. Best of luck."

So, a rejection all the same but at least some feedback and an indication that there are doubtless areas in which I can improve. Can anyone read between the lines? i.e. Am I missing something -- is it really cr*p and they're just being nice ? Is this more of a standard reply than I'm aware of etc?

I'd say this is a big encouragement. HUGE in fact.

Editors don't have time to write personal replies. The fact that you got such a long and detailed letter is a great step in the right direction. She has given you excellent comments. and - five a year!!! It's like the lottery....

Basically, what they are saying is - "the writing is very good, I just didn't fall in love with it. "

Like viewing lots of fab houses, but there's just one you fall in love with. Keep submitting till you find the person who does.

ps - sorry, in case I wasn't clear. This is definitely not a standard reply (which would be like 2 lines)

Thanks Philippa -- I won't give up just yet, in that case. I should have submitted to many more agents and publishers but between sending out the original four submissions I took the advice given by Emma to many people, to get on with the next book, or something else -- so I wrote a new screenplay and will get back to the novel this month.

Thanks again for your encouragement.

Hello Snowflake, I am about fifteen years post-first attempt at publishing. As I remember, that huge pile of rejection letters, although painful at the time, was a big step into the learning curve. I sent my ms to many agents and one or two actually did give personal advice in their rejection letters. I never forgot the advice either. Life happened in the meantime (starting a family etc) and I kept half a mind on pondering what makes something publishable and now I am heavily editing the next novel I hope to get published. I feel that I have learned a million things in all the years of not getting published, one of which is being more open and confident with those around me, about what I am doing. So, my suggestions to your good self are these: - Keep hitting agents because sooner or later one will give you personalised feedback. - Be shameless! Let everyone know you think you're a writer. It's amazing how many people will offer to read it over for you. - Read reviews of other people's work. There are plenty on Amazon for instance. It'll give you an idea of the sort of things that turn people off. - Trawl the web for articles written by publishers and agents in which they give advice. I swear, deep down inside, you know what the issues are with your novel. Among the idiosyncratic judgements, you will hear a common theme from nearly everyone. Believe it. Act on it. Well, there you are. Not that I'm exactly JK Rowling myself but good luck and don't give up. xx

Apologies Snowflake for hijacking your thread earlier.

Just to say, I think you've had some very good advice from experienced people on here, including from Emma D, Squidge, John and FredaPeople which all seems very sound and encouraging. I hate rejection, like everyone else (perhaps inaccurate - I think a few hardy souls take it in their stride).

But I will never let rejection deter me from something I believe in or am passionate about.

Good luck and please keep us up to date on where you are with it.

P.S. I completely missed out Debi -- who always seems to give very sound advice from what I can see on the forum and from great personal experience of writing and publishing.

Thanks for the hat tip, Escritor.

That is one of the most positive rejections I've ever seen and is most definitely not 'standard'. And, no, 'positive rejection' is not a contradiction in terms. This response is clear evidence that you write well enough for them to take you seriously and consider your book for their list. Believe me, that response should be cause for celebration and much feeling-good-about-yourself even if, ultimately, it's still a rejection. Personally, with that kind of feedback, I suggest you keep on pitching. We advise you to carry on writing something new WHILE you're pitching - not INSTEAD OF!

Incidentally, I love the reference to the 'disgracefully long time' it took for them to reply. When people moan about publishers and agents being heartless and rude, we should remember this example.

Thanks Debi. I realise now I should have been making pitches while writing something else.

I was struck by the wording 'disgracefully long time' too. I submitted in December so approximately 5 months for a reply, but I thought this was 'normal' for publishing so didn't chase it up. You're right though, it was a nice way of apologising and recognising the delay.

I hope Snowflake comes on at lets us know where she's up to with her submissions etc.

Hi Escritor, I waited 5 months also (September 2011 to February 2012) to get a response from a literary agent. It was a great response in the end but it all seems to take time in the publishing world :)

"It was a great response in the end..." -- do tell Lou. That's that mean you're signed up now? If so, congratulations.

Snowflake can take heart from the link that Debi put up to her blog:
http://debialper.blogspot.com/2011/01/thickest-skin.html

about the author who was rejected an incredible number of times. Personally, I would find that number of rejections as an assault on my soul but he kept going and good things happened in the end.

'...does that mean...' -- I really should proof my replies before posting.

More important to proof read your MS and covering letter before submitting ... Seriously though, the fact that typo niggled at you and made you feel you had to correct it is a good sign IMO.