Mr Nice
This
piece in the G-G-G-Guardian harps on about a pet peeve of mine:
the ridiculous notion that characters have to be likeable in order
for a writer to write a compelling novel.
The notion has two sources, I reckon. The first is book group chatter. People feel they don't like a book, can't quite locate the source of that feeling, so blame the characters as not being nice enough to share a dinner with.
The second is agents. They have a habit of saying things like: "Thanks for sending me your MS. I admired your writing, but I just didn't love the book - I felt I couldn't quite empathise with your protagonist."
In both cases, I think it's nonsense. It's easy to think of amazing fiction with orrible protagonists.
Anyway. Rant over. Your turn. Rant away. Rant against my rant, or in favour. But toot your horn and have a say.
The notion has two sources, I reckon. The first is book group chatter. People feel they don't like a book, can't quite locate the source of that feeling, so blame the characters as not being nice enough to share a dinner with.
The second is agents. They have a habit of saying things like: "Thanks for sending me your MS. I admired your writing, but I just didn't love the book - I felt I couldn't quite empathise with your protagonist."
In both cases, I think it's nonsense. It's easy to think of amazing fiction with orrible protagonists.
- Othello - bad guy, nice wife.
- Macbeth - bad guy, nasty wife.
- Hamlet - bad guy, bad mum.
- Lear - bad, mad guy.
- And in today's era the same thing: American Psycho, for example. ('Sorry, Mr Ellis, but I felt your portrayal of a typical Wall Street banker wasn't quite empathetic enough. Was it really necessary to have him saw up women with a chainsaw? Mightn't it be better to have him show an interest in home baking and charity work?')
Anyway. Rant over. Your turn. Rant away. Rant against my rant, or in favour. But toot your horn and have a say.
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56 Comments
I am on your side Harry.
protagonists who aren't all giving charity workers who desire nothing but to foster the good hearts of the world, the ones with a bit of a darkside and temper are always the more interesting, plus they add realism and more dimension to the character - no one is entirely good or nice all the time.
1. Judge and jury, serial-killer Dexter (Whoever thought that it would be possible to empathise with a mass-murderer?)
2. Narcissistic, arrogant House
3. Any one of the professional assassins from brilliant In Bruges, especially Harry
4. Disturbed, intriguing, philandering attorney Alan Shore from Boston Legal
5. Devilishly tempting Darryl Van Horne from the Witches of Eastwick
Who wants Barbie’s Ken? Surely ‘nice characters’ are as insipid as their title suggests.
I agree, make 'em at least a tad iniquitous.
I dunno, I'm just interested. In the real world I see people all too often being "nice" rather than "good", and I wonder if that is reflected in the protagonists people like to read about (they like to read about people who have more backbone than them, even if this sometimes leads to jackarsery)
My own YA Fantasy bad guy, is really bad, slightly concerning that I may be asked to tone him down, but surely that would ruin the "good Versus evil" bit. Even my main good guy is selfish!! Everyone loves a baddie!
In relation to bad guys - Wesley does become seriously more attractive when he also takes on the role of the dread pirate Roberts.
So why are "nice" guys so under-represented in books? I wonder if it's because they're quite hard to write? Difficult to make them interesting? Even though they may be interesting in real life? Is it too hard to give them a credible conflict in literature? Is that a good enough reason to avoid trying? In the same way that it's quite hard to write a really feel-good happy story, but we all remember them when we've read them, eh? I'm thinking "The Darling Buds of May" - who's the baddie there? Even the tax inspector ends up as the son-in-law. Or "The Good Companions" by JB Priestley. Plenty of conflict but a compelling cast of *really nice* people who are kind to each other. And "Hard Facts" & "These Lovers Fled Away" by Howard Spring.
I wish there were more really nice guys in books.
Whisks - I do love a good, good guy too, and they never seem to really win do they?? But bad guys are fun to write, and even more fun to read when they are written right. Of course, in the real world; nice dudes are better.
I think that the requisite character is evil. This is a movie example (or two) rather than books, but there's:
Barbara Stanwyck's character in Double Indemnity
Kathleen Turner's character in Body Heat.
Oooh. I have to stop there. Just, well, aah, um. I'll be back.
Some of those powerful examples are characters who are deeply damaged and their actions and attitudes (which we might deplore) are a direct result of this damage ie we might hate the actions but we understand where they come from. We believe in them. We recognise that under the same circumstances perhaps we would end up the same. That's where the empathy can come in so that we care what happens to the person even while despising what they have become.
But a likeable character is not necessarily nice. If a story doesn't contain any likeable characters then it will end up being a depressing experience.
I'm a Cameron Diaz fan myself... always a very likeable personality.
and Norm, there is something to be said about men who are good with their hands- even if they are calloused.
Norm - You make me larf!
The last line in the film when she says 'Nice boys don't kiss like that!' and he says 'Yes they ******* do.'
Curtis must have thought that really funny at the time - not in my household where that word caused great embarrassment to the assembled multi age familial group in attendence. My close encounter with such a "Bill Grundy" moment (boot thru the screen) was exactly because this was out of character with everything seen before. That one word (and usually effing is just poor writing) was a betrayal - and for those who saw "The General's daughter" on TV (the book's even better) betrayal is the one thing worse than rape!
Nice doesn't mean neutered; unassertive; devoid of passion or deathly hallows dull as dishwater boring.
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