Spoon fed generation

Published by: Cazza on 1st Feb 2010 | View all blogs by Cazza

I had a lengthy debate with a group of friends at the weekend, about milk.  I dropped into the conversation that I don’t drink milk because it’s bad for you.  Which, in my opinion is true and also the opinion of a lot of dieticians and members of the medical/scientific world – there’s info everywhere if you care to read it.   

 

As the debate went on one guy kept asking if milk had been scientifically proven to be bad for you, because in his opinion, unless it had been it must be OK.  He didn’t mean had there been case studies done, papers produced, scientific opinion forwarded etc, he meant, definitive proof that milk is bad for you published by scientists for the government. 

 

I said I had no idea how far research had gone, but there was loads of info on the internet from doctors, scientists and dieticians all saying the same thing - but that wasn’t good enough, he wouldn’t accept it as being valid, unless it had been ‘proven’.

 

What I can’t understand is that he was unwilling to accept that it could be true purely because he’d been told all his life that milk is good for you and it was the general opinion. 

 

I tried telling him cigarettes were still marketed as an aid to health and good for clearing your lungs after a small amount of people started to question their health benefits, that thalidomide was still given out even after doctors became suspicious of its effect on the unborn child and that he shouldn’t take everything at face value.  Who did he think was going to tell him milk was bad for you – the milk marketing board?  The local milk farmer?

  

Whether or not you or he agree with me and my views on drinking cow’s milk is irrelevant, what I want to know is when did we stop questioning?  When did we become so spoon-fed we doubt information that doesn’t come from the government?

 

Out of 6 people, four were unwilling to accept that it could be true because they’d been told all their lives milk was good for them.

 

I was really disappointed and quite frightened, that it was the youngest person in the group who was the most adamant and unwilling to at least check it out for himself.    

Comments

23 Comments

  • Tinkerbell
    by Tinkerbell 2 years ago
    I have to say I have some sympathy with the guy who questioned your sources. I am a milk drinker but I have heard and read the arguments that it is unhealthy. On balance of what I've looked at I've decided to keep drinking it. You do admit that you have no idea how far research has gone. You also say there is lots of information on the Internet saying milk is unhealthy. But there is also lots of information on the Net contradicting that. So eventually you have to decide how much weight you give to an argument.

    Look at the controversy over the MMR jab a few years ago. Thousands of parents did not let their children have the combined injection but later the data was discredited. However the number of children having MMR dropped below 95% - the crucial number to ensure herd immunity. So everyone was put at risk.

    You do ask when we stopped questioning. But it does seem you have stopped questioning as well because you hold your belief about milk. Do you have ANY doubts about your sources of information? There is no ultimate truth - only a blance of probabilities.
  • maryluv
    by maryluv 2 years ago
    Well, Cazza, I'm lactose intolerant so milk is bad for me. My husband thrived on it as a child - he's an extremely healthy six foot rugby player with perfect teeth...Two of my kids only drink goats milk as once I stopped breast-feeding I noticed very quickly that cow's milk made them snotty, but the other two are happy, healthy consumers of cow's milk. I'd be concerned if they stopped drinking it because of something they'd read on the internet.
  • Aonghus Fallon
    by Aonghus Fallon 2 years ago
    I was a big milk-drinker as a teenager. I'd come home and down two pints of milk, one after the other. Then I went to the dentist. He said he could tell I was a milk-drinker and told me to cut it out. Apparently excessive calcium had made my teeth too soft and so susceptible to decay. Now I only take it in tea. That said I'd agree with maryluv and Tinkerbell inasmuch I think it depends on the individual - ie, it's all about where lifestyle and genetics intersect.
  • SM Worsey
    by SM Worsey 2 years ago
    Udder milk is produced by cows, for calves to grow at a massive rate in a short time. The idea that it is a 'natural' and somehow important part of human health is laughable. I'm sure there are both 'good' and 'bad' things in it, healthwise, and some people find it fairly easy to digest, whilst others struggle, so making sweeping generalisations is pretty difficult.

    I haven't touched the stuff in 18 years for ethical reasons, simply because milk is only produced by cows who have calved, and in order for humans to take the milk, the calves are separated from their mothers. I also find it too weird that as a fully-weaned, adult human, I should be expected to include the mammary secretions of another species in my diet. I'd rather stick to plant-based foods, and that is getting easier all the time.

    Interestingly, I don't get spots and I've been told that this is because I'm not consuming all that pus from infected udders (around 1-2% milk is mastitis pus) but I'm not sure how true that is. There's a lot of health rhetoric around.
  • Ancient Woodland
    by Ancient Woodland 2 years ago
    The problem is that what we are told changes from week to week. On Monday, we are told that beer is bad for you by several newspapers, the debate thrives through Tuesday to Thursday until on Friday, some handsome, intelligent chap digs up proof from some professor in some university that states that actually, beer is bloody good for you after all. And so we all waltz off for a few after work.

    As for believing the government, IMHO, the government commissions studies to lend weight to whatever agenda's they are currently promoting, so when scientists come back with proof that Global Warming is a swizz or that cannabis is not, in fact, as bad as we thought but alcohol is much, much worse, they get fired because they didn't come back with what the government wanted to hear at the time. Politics is all about twisting truth and I wouldn't believe anything the government says without extensive backing from scientists with no political agendas or sponsorship.

    Ultimately though, we get out allotted span. We can, perhaps, increase that span if we don't eat this or that, abstain from meat and dairy, drink only water and all go and live in Switzerland where they have the cleanest air. But where's the fun in that? I'd rather live life thoroughly and die at 70 than eek it out through all sorts of abstinence and never really live at all. Then you may live to 90 but the fun wasn't there - no fast bikes/cars/women - they can kill you, etc. only to find that you end up with altzheimer's for the last twenty years anyhow. Oh - and Switzerland was a bad analogy, there's a scientist out there that is convinced that oxygen kills brain cells...
  • Caducean Whisks
    by Caducean Whisks 2 years ago
    I've found an interesting point (please validate it yourself if relevant for you): apparently you need fat in order to absorb the calcium. So people drinking skimmed milk and hoping the calcium will offset osteoporosis, are wasting their time - they may as well drink water for all the good it does - the calcium is unavailable to you unless you drink full-fat milk (or some other suitable fat at the same time). I drink full fat milk on the basis that I like my food to be as un-mucked-about-with as possible - the closer to the raw state, the better, as this calcium thing illustrates. Having said that, I'm also increasingly uncomfortable about what I hear about the treatment of cows and their newborn calves (shot in front of their mothers and sold for £2 as dogmeat) and think I may be giving it up altogether, soon. I don't know if goats are subjected to the same treatment - I suspect they are.
  • Caducean Whisks
    by Caducean Whisks 2 years ago
    Crossed with you, Woody. I agree that we're told one thing today, another tomorrow - which is why I choose not to believe a single sodding thing I'm told, and stick to the principle of eating un-mucked-about-with food, whatever the current fad; we all evolved together (all us plants and animals) and the closer we stick to the original state, the better we'll be (IMHO). This doesn't mean I don't add anything in cooking - oh dear, no - it means that I buy raw meat, fresh vegetables etc and concoct my own brews - but anything chemically processed before I get it, gets the beady eye from me. Except bacon. Shame about bacon. But then I only buy British bacon as we are nicer to our pigs than anyone else. All that cheap bacon from Holland and Denmark? Battery pigs, that's what they are.
  • Rebecca Holmes
    by Rebecca Holmes 2 years ago
    One of my daughters is vegan, for ethical reasons - particularly the treatment of cows, as CW has just described. But she also states the health reasons, such as higher cholesterol and recent research that shows too much calcium can actually damage bones (full marks to your dentist, AF!). When she told this to some of her friends, they laughed at her and said that decided that what she said wasn't true. But more research does seem to be backing it up.
    I'm afraid I've not followed her example - I like both meat and dairy too much, though eat a lot less meat nowadays - but I'm also becoming uncomfortable with a lot I hear about the food industry. I think people need information so they can make up their own minds, perhaps with a pinch of healthy disrespect for 'authority' thrown in.
    However I think there's also a problem that if sometihing becomes controversial people might jump on a bandwagon of refusing to have it because that's the 'thing' to and so makes them look better, instead of weighing up the pros and cons and working out the risks. I can't help feeling there was an element of that with the MMR jab.
  • Caducean Whisks
    by Caducean Whisks 2 years ago
    It's also easier to blame and external, "unknown" source than change your own behaviour - feed them junk food every day but wail about the MMR. I knew someone who was wary of their daughter's new school because there was a mobile phone mast nearby - that unknown danger - whereas she is more likely to be killed on the roads, so if her safety is the criterion for a new school, it should be the one with the fewer road crossings.
  • Tinkerbell
    by Tinkerbell 2 years ago
    I think we're getting away from the point. It's not about whether or not milk is safe, it's about how we weigh up the evidence for and against any argument. One of my points was that Cazza seemed to me to have stopped questioning the evidence once she'd arrived at a point of view. So that was no different from the guy who disagreed. How often has clear evidence been subsequently disproved? How many people called for the return of the death penalty for the Birmingham 6 in 1974? Then look what happened. There is never any certainty in anything and you have to apply that to global warming and its causes. We all tend to form our own opinions and then accuse others of being close-minded.

    Incidentally I heard once that apparently the safe amount of blood-alcohol for driving is actually TWICE the legal limit. Apparently when scientists were asked to research it in the 1950s they came up with a figure which amounted to about 4 pints of beer. The government thought, 'shit, 4 pints sounds a lot. Let's just halve the scientists' figure.' This is not a suggestion that you all go out and get rat-arsed and then drive home and then say 'but this person of this website said......'
  • Spangles
    by Spangles 2 years ago
    It seems to me that it's very difficult to make up one's own mind about many of these things because the 'truth' is so difficult to get at. I agree that there are endless so-called scientific studies telling us all sorts of contradictory things every day of the week, but what we are usually not told is that they are backed by groups with vested interests. For instance, at one point a major sugar company managed to get a lot of dentists to say that sugar isn't bad for our teeth. That's nicely scientific, isn't it?

    The pharmaceutical industry is one of the worst offenders of all. There is plenty of documented evidence about what they get up to, yet patients still believe that a pill that has been scientifically tested must be safe to take, even though that test may have only included a handful of people and the results massaged to produce the right statistics. More people end up in hospital with stomach haemorrhages caused by taking aspirin than for any other reason. Has anyone suggested banning aspirin? Apparently one of the reasons why GPs in the UK were up in arms about the controversy over the MMR vaccine was that if a child didn't receive all its jabs, that GP would not receive a hefty bonus payment from the government. So parents who were understandably worried about the safety of giving their tiny children three doses of potentially lethal illnesses at the same time may have been reassured by doctors who were more concerned about the impact on their wallets.

    And of course there are vast vested interests behind the dairy industry, as well. And the meat business. They don't want any clear light shone on how they produce our food, because that might put us off eating it, which is why they use euphemisms such as 'mechanically recovered meat' as an ingredient in meat pies, hamburgers, etc. It sounds OK, doesn't it, meat that has been mechanically recovered. It makes me think of a robot's arm picking up bits of meat on a conveyor belt and putting it into a pie. What it really means, as I understand it, is all the bits of an animal that people don't want to think about, such as brain, ears, nose, guts (and what might still be in those guts), etc, all being mashed about in a big machine, mixed with bits that are more palatable and turned into something that sells for 3 quid in your local supermarket. Yum yum.

    Anyone in doubt about how our much of our meat and dairy industries operate would benefit from taking a look at the website of Compassion in World Farming. And some of what they describe there happens in the UK as well as abroad. It is enough to make you lose your appetite.
  • Cazza
    by Cazza 2 years ago
    I'm so pleased this has created such a debate. Like I originally said whether you agree with my views on milk or not you've not just accepted whatever the general consensus. I continually look for information regarding the food I eat, and the drugs that are being sold to us to cure our ever increasing list of ailments.
  • Tinkerbell
    by Tinkerbell 2 years ago
    Now who's for a nice big latte?
  • Ancient Woodland
    by Ancient Woodland 2 years ago
    Nah - I'm off for a McDonalds...
  • Rebecca Holmes
    by Rebecca Holmes 2 years ago
    Speaking of vaccinations, GPs, etc - re the swine flu vaccine, I noticed at our local surgery that anyone having the vaccination was required to fill in a consent form... That's enough to make you think twice. Both my husband and younger teenage daughter were offered it but but didn't go ahead. Husband reckoned it had been rushed through too quickly for major problems to be ironed out.
  • spike1
    by spike1 2 years ago
    You're only half right about the recovered meat thing.
    Yes, it includes bits of animal not suitable for sale to the public.
    No, it can NOT include "the guts of the animal" or indeed, in most cases, the brain.
    Or spine or bones (in the case of beef).

    There are some bits that are absolutely banned from human consumption.
  • Daz
    by Daz 2 years ago
    Interesting. Try replacing the word 'milk' with the word 'god' and see how we fair. From a very early age we are told milk is good for you. People you trust, your parents, teachers, doctors - all say that you should drink it. How many of us go searching for proof that what they say is correct? We take it on face value and believe it because it's just always been the case. In the same way the same people told us from an early age that a supernatural being can hear your toughts, create worlds, die and be reborn - how many of us look at that and question it? It does appear to be the case that more and more people can't be bothered to think for themselves anymore. I like milk.
  • Ancient Woodland
    by Ancient Woodland 2 years ago
    That, strangely, is a very valid point. Not that I'm a great lover of organised religion....
  • Tony
    by Tony 2 years ago
    Well, on the face of it, it's an interesting point Daz, but it falls down when it come to the point of questioning and proof. Although many millions of christians worldwide have had a conversion experience when they decided to turn from the way they were living their own lives and accept all God is offering to live His way, countless others have, like myself been brought up by Christian parents who, to paraphrase Daz, told me that God was good for me. However, to become a Christian, at some point I had to seek God for myself - not beleive in Him because my parents did, but because He had proved Himself to ME. (Someone once said, "God has no grandchildren" - everone who accepts Jesus as their Saviour must do so on a one-to-one basis.) So the difference between God and milk (I never thought I'd write that in a sentense!) is that with God, a seeking individual CAN receive in himself proof of God's goodness, whilst, if we accept the arguments here, we can't have proof of the efficasy or otherwise of milk.
  • Ancient Woodland
    by Ancient Woodland 2 years ago
    Nor God.
  • Cazza
    by Cazza 2 years ago
    This is so funny - we ended up discussing the whole god thing too, but at 4 o'clock in the morning and you've had several alcoholic beveridges it's a bad idea. I came to the conclusion she doesn't drink milk ;o)
  • Tony
    by Tony 2 years ago
    Not even the milk of human kindness? :-)
  • Elysia
    by Elysia 1 year ago
    My daughter is severely dairy allergic (also eggs and peanuts), which means we as a family have basically been dairy free sine I started weaning her (she is now 13 months old). We found out about her allergy the hard way when she was 14 weeks old (I was ill, so hubby gave her some formula... not a good idea. She had an anaphylaxsis and we ended up in hospital) and so since then, I went hardcore dairy free until she was well into weaning, and now only have small amounts (basically milk in tea and that is it) because I was worried about the milk proteins going through my milk. And you know what? I am definitely healthier for it. The one time I had pizza, I was so ill afterwards it was unreal (the cheese was too much for my system).

    If you think about it, drinking milk is completely wrong (yes, I am a bit of a hypocrite in saying this, but I'm not going to pretend it isn't true!). No other animal drinks another animal's milk by choice - especially in to adulthood. And the saddest thing is giving my daughter cow's milk is seen as normal, whereas my breastfeeding her is seen as freakish (I am intending to feed her until she is 2, or until she wants to stop). So... a human baby drinking another mammal's milk is normal, but drinking the milk made by her human mother is weird? Hmmm...
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