The Case for God – Can There Be Proof? My Experience

Published by: Tony on 20th Jun 2010 | View all blogs by Tony

The WordCloud is not strictly the place for this sort of blog, but in the Science and Religion thread found here:  http://www.thewordcloud.org/magazine/read/science-and-religion_2058.html#comments
Gerry asked me if I could relate something of my experience of God in my life – which I had said helps to prove to me that He exists. It is obviously partly autobiographical, so I suppose it can qualify on that count. I can’t write a whole book here, as many others more able than me have already done. Their works are readily available and make for fascinating reading.  I’ll just jot down some personal notes.

First, some of the evidence that has caused me and millions like me to take that step of faith and so find proof for ourselves.

(1) The universe: unimaginably immense and marvellous; our own solar system, fairly ordinary as solar systems go and yet absolutely amazing in its complexity; our planet, just the right distance from the sun and made up of just the right elements to sustain life; life itself; the wonder and beauty of nature; the intricacy of sub-atomic physics, the enormity of forces that have formed vast mountain ranges and river systems in all their splendour: all there by pure, unguided chance? My faith is nowhere near strong enough to sustain that belief. To me the belief that all this has been designed, created, and sustained by a ‘Being’ who is greater than all of it, is far more logical. In fact, without such a Being, no one - no theory, no explanation - is able to look back before ‘the beginning’ and say, or even suggest what, or Who, caused it all to begin.

(2) The Bible, a library of 66 books whose 40 or so human writers spanned at least 4000 years, consisting mainly of history, law and poetry, has an absolutely amazing cohesion from start to finish, only satisfactorily explained by its own claim to have been inspired throughout by the same God, the Holy Spirit. The oldest manuscripts of much of the Bible date back as far as 400 AD, approximately and are some of the oldest manuscripts of any sort in existence. And unlike some other ancient writings where only one or maybe just a few copies have been preserved, there are literally hundreds of copies of the scriptures extant.  And the amazing accuracy of the translations we have today, after 1600 years of (mostly, until recent times) hand copying of the writings, is itself a testimony to its supernatural preservation. Over 300 prophecies written by Old Testament writers were fulfilled by the life (and death and resurrection) of Jesus Christ. The most recent of those prophesies were written 400 years before Christ’s birth and the oldest were over 3500 years before that. The teaching of Christ, although now almost 2000 years old, are still the best possible set of guidelines for living and provide the best source of absolute values in a world of continuously changing and shifting standards. I, like countless others, can’t help seeing the guiding hand of God in this most amazing of books.

(3) Humankind: the highest, most advanced form of life that we know is demonstrably much more than just that. People the world over from as far back as we have any knowledge of, have shown a desire – a need – to worship a higher Being. Nothing like this is seen elsewhere in the animal kingdom. We are different, not just more developed. (The Bible explains that, unlike the animals, we are created ‘in God’s image’ with a spirit.) This would certainly explain humankind’s constant searching for something or someone beyond themselves, and the emergence of all sorts of what have come to be known as religions to try to meet that need. (I never think of Christianity as a religion: it is simply the way to God; and Jesus said it is the only way.) To me, it is not logical to think that this character trait in humans to worship, which is prevalent in every generation and in every tribe and nation throughout history, is a chance occurrence: ‘Some people need a prop’ is the common dismissive explanation. The logical explanation is the Biblical one: that we are made to be able to commune with our creator, which explains why down through the ages, and more than ever in this current generation, people are looking to the supernatural for explanations.

Faced with all this evidence, and told about how God does, indeed want to have a loving Father/son relationship with me, I took the decision to accept as true, what He has said about me and everyone else: that the wrong in my life has separated me from God. Never mind anything that I might think of as good in me. They don’t cancel each other out. It’s like links in a chain. No matter how many good links there are, if there are any bad, broken ones – even just one – the chain is no use. The Bible says sin is like that; if it’s there at all, the link with God is broken and there is no way any amount of ‘good’ that we may try to do can alter the fact that the link is gone. That’s why God took the momentous decision to bridge the gap Himself by sending his Son, Jesus, who lived among us without sin – the only perfect individual ever to have lived. In dying in our place the Bible says God laid on him all the sin of everyone who had ever lived or ever would live.

A just God must judge justly. He cannot overlook law-breaking – however much He loves the law-breakers and longs to be reconciled with them. If He did, He would immediately cease to be just, no longer perfect – no longer God. So he arranged for the penalty to be paid for us the only other way possible, by allowing that which was perfect to ‘become sin for us’ and to die and be banished from God’s presence (a fate, literally, worse than death) instead of us. The only trouble was, there was no one other than his only Son who was perfect and could fulfil that role. Yet, the Bible says, ‘God so loved the world that He gave his only Son that whoever believed in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.’

It was explained to me from other Bible passages that that expression, ‘believed in Him’ meant to trust in Him, put my faith in Him, rely on Him to guide my life. That I needed to:

(A) admit my wrong-doing – that I am a sinner and need forgiveness
(B) believe that Jesus has done on the cross all that is necessary for God to forgive me
(C) commit my life to Him and give Him control so He can start to change me to become more like Jesus

When I did, I received an assurance within me – like a sort of inner peace – that God had, indeed, forgiven my sin. And, rather more significantly, I received God Himself(!) – the Holy Spirit, to live in me, alongside my own spirit. As I started to learn to yield to Him and ask Him to direct my life, so I believe He does guide my thoughts and decisions.  Not that I stopped forever doing anything wrong! Becoming a Christian isn’t becoming ‘perfect’. It depends who’s in control. When I consciously yield to God and seek his guidance, He gives it (maybe through a passage of scripture, the advice of a Christian friend, or by putting a particular thought in my mind). But if I start doing my own thing and stop paying attention to the Spirit’s prompting, thing can easily go wrong. Even then, though, it’s so good to know my loving heavenly Father, ‘if I confess my sin (am genuinely sorry), is faithful and just to forgive my sin and to cleanse me from unrighteousness.’

Being able to talk to God and knowing He’s there right with me in every situation is a real confidence booster, and a comfort, too, when things don’t go too well – proof to me that He is very real indeed. Auto-suggestion, I can hear someone say. Well, maybe – if it weren’t for the Spiritual gifts He lets us have. There is a string of God-given abilities that He distributes amongst his children. Some quite ‘ordinary’ like the gift of helping others, or the gift of administrating; others, more expected perhaps, like the gift of teaching, or evangelism, and yet others of a more obviously supernatural nature like the gift of prophecy (not normally foretelling future events, but more often speaking into a situation some wisdom or insight from God), the gift of knowledge (becoming aware of something about someone else that you would have no way of knowing), or of healings (being used by God to channel his healing to someone who is sick).

We are encouraged to pray for the sick and I have found, particularly with headaches, God has often healed people in answer to my prayers. Not always – and that’s a whole other topic! – but proof to me that God is there and answers prayer.  Regarding ‘knowledge’ I can tell you, for example, of being given a picture in my mind of a friend sitting at a table with her head in her hands, weeping. I had no idea why this should be so, but with my wife, Anita, I asked her if it meant anything to her. It turned out she was having a very bad time at work and had been in just such a state. Being able to talk about it helped her to begin to see her way through it. Proof to her that God was concerned for her well-being and proof to me that He gives gifts to his children as they need them.

Our second daughter was born with a split lip and cleft palate and I can still remember thanking God that this complication had developed in our little girl and not in the other baby who was born within minutes of her to a mother, who as far as I knew, had not opened up her life to receive God’s help through such a trauma. I knew He would be with us through the difficult times ahead, as indeed He was – right up to the time for her third operation (first, to mend the split lip; second, to join the front palate). She was prayed for at our church before she was due for the third op. to join the back palate. When she went into hospital they found there was no need for an op.; the palate was healed.

God has proved himself to me over and over again. Not always in some spectacular way. More often by that calming inner assurance that He is with me in the mundane, day-to-day things of life. I really couldn’t imagine what it would be like to be without him now. But I know I’ll never have to. That’s another thing He’s promised: that He’ll ‘never leave me or forsake me.’ Bren quoted a couple of days ago, ‘Be still, and know that I am God.’ Just stop for a moment and consider.  

One of God’s best promises, I think, is this: ‘If you seek me you will find me.’ It’s conditional – but it is a promise – which I have proved conclusively to myself, and – more to the point – which anyone who actually wants to, can prove for themselves, too. 

Comments

16 Comments

  • Gerry
    by Gerry 1 year ago
    Only had time for a quick glance as yet. I want to reply more carefully when able. But first things first: thankyou very much, Tony, for sharing some of your experiences. They are, of course, worthy of genuine respect, because they are yours. Other people might come up with various interpretations of them, but it must be remembered the experiences are yours, not theirs. I'll say more later.
  • Minxie
    by Minxie 1 year ago
    maybe you should write it as a book tony? i can relate to quite a bit of this as i'm not over excited with science when it comes to beliefs to be honest... i hate the fact of anyone telling me what I should and shouldn't believe, purely based on whether it can be proven? in science, even if you 100% genuinely picked a box out of a million that contains a chosen object, you're still not 'proving' you've done it as you can't prove 'how' you've done it... that's what annoys me about it... it has it's good side too, as with everything. i can relate to you being pleased that your daughter was yours. in one of my books (another old one) c h herford, who was apparently very intelligent ;] wrote... "The honest thief, the tender murder, the superstitious athiest"... mmmm my headache has gone by the way! i know i've been taking things for it all day, so it isn't proof, but thank you too...
  • Minxie
    by Minxie 1 year ago
    murderer... it should say
  • mike
    by mike 1 year ago
    As a person rejected by the local church because of lack of income and class, I cannot agree. But I would hate to see churches and religion go; the origins of both the music I enjoy and, to a certain extent, the books I read, have their origins here. I am not too keen on hymns but Bach is my favourite composer. i have a cousin who is a Dr of Philosophy and her husband is now a rural Dean . I once asked her what women expected of men. She was quite honest. Money and a sense of humour -and even the sense of himour could have ben left out. We have a situation now where even priests do not believe in God. (Not my cousin's husband, by the way!) The Anglican church might have value as a social club for the rich, and other churches as a force for for social change - to replace the social class of the Anglican church with their own. From the practical point of view religion has become too political and I would prefer to vote but, even here, I have very little choice now.
  • Aonghus Fallon
    by Aonghus Fallon 1 year ago
    I should say - for some one who can be belligerently rationalist - that I'm not particularly anti-religious. Nor do I (unlike a lot of people) blame various churches for the world's ills. People will always find a reason for killing each other.
  • Gerry
    by Gerry 1 year ago
    Tony: the opening three arguments are good but contentious, and could therefore be debated till eternity. So I’ll cut to the more personal portions.

    I think a lot of us can understand how faith would bring “a sort of inner peace... guidance... comfort, too, when things don’t go too well.” If sufficiently strong, these might well constitute subjective proof.

    The “gifts” you mention have more objective aspects to them. As regards the “gift of knowledge” you offer the example “of being given a picture in my mind of a friend sitting at a table with her head in her hands, weeping.” The person turned out to be your wife, Anita, who “was having a very bad time at work and had been in just such a state.”

    As regards healing, you offer the example of your second daughter who was “born with a split lip and cleft palate.... She was prayed for at our church before she was due for the third op. to join the back palate. When she went into hospital they found there was no need for an op.; the palate was healed.”

    These would be very persuasive examples to anyone involved. Outsiders might suggest some sort of telepathy for the “gift of knowledge” case, and for the healing example they might have to fall back on “spontaneous remission”.

    It would be good to have a scientific study of “healing” cases, but I can imagine it would be hard to achieve, partly because many examples are likely to be anecdotal, and partly because “serious” scientists might fear bad reactions from disapproving colleagues – and also from funding bodies.

    Thankyou for sharing your experiences with us, Tony. I dare say they could lead to all sorts of reactions, positive and negative.

    Do tell me if I have misrepresented or misinterpreted anything. Thanks again.
  • Wrathnar the Unreasonable
    Oh, I'm tired of all this 'god' blether. There is no big Daddy in the sky, losers. Grow up.
  • Tony
    by Tony 1 year ago
    You're absolutely right, Wrathner.

    Gerry, thank you for your reasonable and sympathetic comments. The 'weeping friend', btw, was not my wife, she actually lived some miles away. It was just that Anita joined me in talking with our friend.
  • mike
    by mike 1 year ago
    It was only through reading Jung - second hand, as it were, - in a book by Anthony Storr -but i got the impression thadt Jung's view of healing approaches that of religion.
    Religion may have done good deeds in the past, but many of these functions could also be done by well intentioned social groups. I think the majority of people will go to a Doctor first, rather than consult their local vicar.
    I remember reading a biography of Arnold Bennett who argued that the Methodists had played right into the hands of the mill owners -with religion's all work and no play. An aunt argued the converse, that the Methodists had done things like starting up Sunday schools were people could leant to read. But these are practical things and the same thing could have been done by a trade union.
    A few days ago I watched Moore's documentary on American capitalism and the priests interviewed were all of the opinion that capitalism and the teachings of Jesus Christ are incompatible. America is, apparently, one of the most religious countries in the world and one business contacts etc are made in the local church more than the local golf club.
    However, i am sure most priests are well intentioned and do the best they can for the members of their congregation, Last week, someone who comes regularly into the library tried to 'convert' me to his beliefs and assured me that I would immediately receive the benefits but he spent some time berating the Catholics who were not of his faith. but he is a pleasant and well intentioned man.
    I like St Martin's in the Field's in Trafalgar Square, There is a cafe in the basement and, for those interested, a jazz group plays, Concerts ate held nearly every day in the main church and I am sure the priests do much for the local community too. This church is thriving while many are empty.
    I just don't have the time, but i would like to have researched a great-grandfather's life - someone I came across though family research. He had been a Chartist and a Republican and, horror's i would have to get to grips with Milton.
    I researched a grandfather's life. He believed in God. He pleads for someone to 'believe in me.' In dramatic terms, this is rather like Peter Pan asking the audience to believe in fairies. I don't know if this would work. It is entirely hypothetical.
  • Peter
    by Peter 1 year ago
    The holographic paradigm is also a very interesting slant on alternative possibilities for those searching for answers.
  • Gerry
    by Gerry 1 year ago
    Interesting thought, Peter!
  • Tony
    by Tony 1 year ago
    I must confess I had to Google the holographic paradigm. Fascinating ideas. If anyone wants a (fairly) simle explanation you can find it here:
    http://itotd.com/articles/227/the-holographic-paradigm/
    If you decide not to read it all, though, do scan down to the last two paragraphs.
  • Bren
    by Bren 1 year ago
    Tony, thank you for putting it so well. It saddens me to remember what I turned my back on so often. And it gained me nothing.
    I can see that we share a lot.
    I was reading a Celebration of Discipline (very slowly), small writing, dense subject. I would have railed against that in my youth. Even as a Christian I used to compose songs about God being a woman which I sang at folk clubs. I 'get' it all now of course.
    Mike has mentioned the priests that don't believe in God, it is true and some Anglicn vicars are carrying out duties but when one meets a vicar or priest filled with the spirit, it is amazing and such a telling difference.
    It is the message of the New Testament that is the key.
    I have experienced many of the things Tony mentions.
    It is not an easy ride - there are no simple answers but life is complex.
    There is a difference for me between the soul feeling when looking at a flower or smelling a rose or amazing scenery to tat of being one with God.
    There is no need for discussion - it is subjective, but one only has to ask.
  • Bren
    by Bren 1 year ago
    I have not expressed myself very clearly here. I apologise. Will blame it on being thrown ot of my house twice a day and rushing round cleaning toilets and picking up socks before the viewings.
    I am a Quaker but was an Anglican, but was baptised at 38 as a Baptist. So a varied life. There are a lot of Quakers who have an intellectual understanding of God, but also some who are very spiritual.
    I used to go to talks at St. Martins, it is a lovely part of the city.
  • anaisnais
    by anaisnais 1 year ago
    It's so sad to hear of some of the situations here - not being accepted by church for little income.... It just doesn't ring right something is clearly amiss with the situation for it is not like that throughout my own experience of the Anglican Churches and I have visited and been part of a few. Regards income, we've always had enough to get by in the past but when eventually my first marriage failed I was very much supported by the ministry there as were my children. Above all they would not have seen us without food or shelter if they could help in any way... Thankfully for the most we managed nicely thanking them kindly. Whatever situation/circles/business you move inin todays world there are always going to be those you cannot depend on for whatever reason. If we were all supposed to be identical copies of each other we'd have rolled out as robots! Thankfully we are not and have the luxury of being highly intelligent beings able to think for ourselves and responsible for our own thoughts and actions. Not one of us is absolutely perfect, we all make mistakes and learn by them and move on for the most but some don't for whatever reason. For those ours is not to judge but to leave to the orders and laws of our world and beyond where they shall be treated according to their individual case. I challenge anyone to read/listen to the likes of Trevor Irwin on redbubble.com and his plight and his recent battles with deathand not need think something more is going on in our world. I've heard many miraculous stories fromindividuals including a nurse risking her job telling surgeons to stop surgery because something was amiss - having felt like someone was telling her to stop the works - only to find out after that yes something was wrong the sollution (saline) if I recollect correctly to be used in theatre was not the right one and would have caused death. She is now a minister herself... Some things more personal too that I shan't go into because unless they have actually happened to you you'd not trust them anyway and I understand that.... and would be same. Then we go to those who have almost totally passed on, only to be brought back to our world for one miraculous reason or aother who can relate personal experiences all with similarities world over whilst lost to our world... Above all I breathe in air, I trust the next breath will fill my lungs and it does, it's theere but I can't see it... The historical evidence points to Christs existence and is still being found in modeern times, and our dates worked from BC/AD I'm not a major in any degree etc, but from the evidence around me and that witnessed and handed down by those I trust that I can come to my own conclusions...
    Kindest thoughts regardless of your own decisions... Anna-Marie.
  • Caducean Whisks
    by Caducean Whisks 1 year ago
    Just want to chip in here and thank peeps for the open discussion, especially Tony. It's all interesting. Some of the truths are my truths too, some are not. I could take issue with some of the assertions, but it doesn't matter whether or not we agree. There's room in (my) world for everyone to believe whatever they like. So much of life is an article of faith anyway, whether it's "will my xxx be cured, to "will the sun rise tomorrow". Unless there is actual harm to be done, it's all fine by me: whatever makes sense to each of us.
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